2009 car launches thread

back to bmw?

there is a space waiting...

if that is, toyota dont advance this season...


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it

@ Chet: Yes, certainly people noticed. What I meant is that the difference between a 20 car grid and an 18 car one wasn't all that big, or even non-existing.

Seeing as they get the Toyota engines for free... possibly not.

Maybe not you but it sure effects the TV company's who expect 20cars on the grid.

If Ferrari were banned for 2 races there would be people who not bother to watch the races.

I imagine to alot of people BAR had the same effect.

20 cars to 18 is big and it will be felt.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

Minardi were utter shite but we loved them...

I didn't. Sorry to burst the Minardi bubble, but what was so awesome about them? Sitting at the back forever, struggling to make the race, and then struggling to finish. Meanwhile teams like Jordan came in from nothing and made it to race winners before the economic situation in F1 killed off private teams. Sorry, didn't love Minardi for the same reason I didn't love Forti. Generic back of the grid team. Woo.

Honda F1 mattered to alot of people, maybe not you, but certainly to many people, and alot more than you proberly think. Just as much as Ferrari, Mercedes and BMW.

Woah hold up. Honda mattered to some people, but they also didn't matter to some people. To suggest Honda matter as much as Ferrari is utterly *hilarious*.

Do not base ones popularity on performance over one season or just generally performance.

I didn't talk about popularity. You did.

To you Honda did not mean anything, like others, but to me RedBull dont really provide much significance, again an opinion shared by not only me.

Red Bull doesn't bring much to the sport either at the moment. Maybe to motorsport as a whole, given the effort put into the young driver program, there NASCAR efforts, and how involved they have been from the early days of the company. But to F1? meh, not really. If Red Bull was replaced by another team I probably wouldn't care much. Maybe a little less personality, but thats the biggest loss.

Dave for someone of such a respected opinion your argument in that post was very poor and for you very childish and not well thought out. Normally you post something worth reading and generally worthwhile and useful. However what you posted was simply an opinion not a fact nor observation and uttlery usless to the discussion.

First of all - I am not the one that just said Honda matters as much as Ferrari. So if your going to call something childish and not well thought out, look in a mirror son, because that is AMAZING.

Secondly, hold onto that "your opinion is not a fact" thought for just one minute.

The fact is Honda WILL be missed and ARE being missed atm. Bernie himself has proved that.

Oh wait a second. You are posting an OPINION, as a FACT? Well bugger me sideways, didn't you just cover that and tell me not to do that? What proof do you have that they will be missed? Or is this your OPINION?

Secondly, your skills of reading fail you. At no point did I actually posted my thoughts as fact. And just to hammer home the point, I shall quote it and bold it for you.

> I was thinking that, and realised...would it be?
> Is losing Honda going to actually make a
> difference to the race itself? Ignoring the
> economic impacts and the threats of Toyota and
> Renault going for now. But I don't think the races
> would be any better or worse without Honda. All
> they did was potter around the back all year, and
> every so often provide a bit of a laugh by being
> complete morons in only a way Honda could ever do.
> If they didn't tell us they were leaving, and we
> went to Albert Park, would anyone notice they are
> gone? The paddock may even be a happier place
> since nobody would have to look at Nick Frys smug
> f**king puss.

Go on, quote me where I posted fact, rather than my opnion. Oh, you can't? Might want to post something a bit more" thought out" next time eh? Or is it just because I attacked Honda you had to come in running guns blazing, ignoring what I posted, hoping I wouldn't notice? I never posted nobody would miss Honda. I asked if anyone would, with my opinion being I wouldn't.

Secondly - Bernie doesn't give a f**k if Honda is gone. Bernie cares that 2 cars are gone, not Honda. It'd be the same if we list any other team, with the exception of Ferrari, which would probably hurt F1 more, since they have much more history than the others.

In this case personal opinion means jack and is about as useful as Gui

You can post your opinion as fact, but when someone else posts an opinion it is childish and not thought out?

No offense Chet, but I know your going to run to the report post button, but if you don't bother reading what I posted and then attack me for it, you should be damned sure you'll get it blown back in your face. I posted my opinion, if you can't handle that, that is your problem. That's all you'll hear from me on the topic.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2009 02:01PM by DaveEllis.

I didn't. Sorry to burst the Minardi bubble, but what was so awesome about them? Sitting at the back forever, struggling to make the race, and then struggling to finish. Meanwhile teams like Jordan came in from nothing and made it to race winners before the economic situation in F1 killed off private teams. Sorry, didn't love Minardi for the same reason I didn't love Forti. Generic back of the grid team. Woo

You may not have liked Minardi but certainly alot of people loved them. for the fact they struggled to make the races but they did make the races! They seemed to have had enough support to last just as long as Jordan and certainly have a fanbase as big as Jordan.

Woah hold up. Honda mattered to some people, but they also didn't matter to some people. To suggest Honda matter as much as Ferrari is utterly *hilarious*.

To alot of people, probably primarily Japan Honda would have meant just as much as Ferrari, if not more.

Oh wait a second. You are posting an OPINION, as a FACT? Well bugger me sideways, didn't you just cover that and tell me not to do that? What proof do you have that they will be missed? Or is this your OPINION?

Just simply read around the internet of all the poeple expressing their thoughts about Honda. The facts are around.

I miss Honda, is that proof they are being missed?

Also my argument is that you did not post fact. You simply just expressed your dislike for Honda and that you think they will not make a difference when clearly it has.

Secondly - Bernie doesn't give a f**k if Honda is gone. Bernie cares that 2 cars are gone, not Honda

But those two cars happen to be Honda. So in effect does that mean Bernie cars that the 2 Hondas are gone? Yes, you could say it does.

Also whats to report in your post? I am not that petty

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

If the recession continues long enough, and the regulations are relaxed enough, I reckon we could well see a return to bigger grids in maybe two years. Big money has slowly been killing Formula 1, just as it has been killing soccer and as it is starting to affect rugby. I don't think smaller grids are good for F1, and even if some of the teams are there to make up the numbers, then at least at some crazy grands prix we get some unexpected results we can celebrate, I'm thinking of Webber finishing in the points at Australia 2002, stuff like that. I do think these backmarkers have something to offer to F1, and while some people may not like a return to grids like we had in the mid-90s where teams came and went, personally I'd be all for it.

Thing is, F1 reaction come too late, in the last few years we saw 4 teams disappearing (Prost, Arrows, Super Aguri and now Honda)... when SA withdrawn a lot of people knew it was a warning note, but we had to wait Honda´s withdraw (because they had a $400000000 budget) to do something...

All started in the mid 90s when little budget teams started to disapear, and some of them had a rich history in F1, like Lotus, or Brabham, and some were crappy from a start (Simtek, Larousse, etc.). But in the mid 90s private teams could do something good. Now, for doing something you need to have $646896346346847963164646464 like Force India, or be a company like BMW, Ferrari, McLaren etc... Today F1 is not a good place to privateer teams. Look at Williams, in the 90s was the best team, and now they are struggling to be there and fight for at least finish in the points in each race...

Thing is, F1 reaction come too late, in the last few years we saw 4 teams disappearing (Prost, Arrows, Super Aguri and now Honda)... when SA withdrawn a lot of people knew it was a warning note, but we had to wait Honda´s withdraw (because they had a $400000000 budget) to do something...

Well lets be fair.

Prost - Was never going to succed. Couldn't get sponsors, and spent half the cash running illegal cars in testing to try and get sponsors. Ligier lasted forever, Alain took over and destroyed it. Racing drivers don't always transfer into management well.

Arrows - Motorsports most bent man was in charge. Paid Damon Hill with off-shore accounts, owed money to a hell of a lot of people, DQed from every series he has ever entered, with some serious cheating involved. Tom K is bad news. Put him in a situation where money is tight and you'll start seeing funny things happen.

Super Aguri - Should never have been a team. An IRL mid-field team cannot just transfer into F1 like that. They were only in F1 because Honda made a massive PR error (even if it was a good racing decision) by sacking Sato and needed to save there own asses. So shove him in Super Aguri when everyone has stopped caring they drop Super Aguri, say nobody wanted it, and kill it all off in 1 go. Aguri was used as a pawn by Honda.

I understand and agree with what you are saying, but the recent teams which have been killed off are not a good example to use for F1, because of its unique situation.

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I loved the Super Aguri team, but as Dave said they were there just for Sato (I remember reading that after Sato was dropped from Honda, Honda's sales in Japan halfed or something similar).

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You can't compare Minardi to Honda anyway. Minardi had character. Nobody cared they were so slow because they had so little money. When they did score a point, a lot of people were happy for them. When Honda did good everybody thought 'it was about bloody time' since Honda have 8 times the budget Minardi had.

I never cared for Minardi because I have always disliked Paul Stoddart, I was happy when they could pull something in the top 10 because they sucked.

You do realise Minardi existed before Stoddart, right?

For me, Minardi is summed up by Luca Badoer's reaction to his gearbox giving up on him at the Nurburgring '99.

I do, Gav, but I was too young back then to care for so many technicalities I never had access to in Brazil. Once I did, Stoddart was already there and I went from thinking it was a crappy car to thinking I disliked the team.

Monza972 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bruninho Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Stan Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > That would be awsome news as well as Nelson
> > would
> > > get the boot
> >
> > And I would boot you for saying that
>
> I think you should boot yourself sir , I mean if
> Nelson went your other dude may come in. Mr Bruno
> Senna

To be alongside Alonso in an underpowered Renault, relegated to a supporting role? No thanks, i prefer to see him alongside Hamilton and kicking that british ass on track

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and Heikki wasnt in a supporting role?

Can't do much support if your too sh*t to be even close to your team mate.

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I remember Nelsinho being passed by Hamilton (passed, not overtaken), could he have moved over any more to the left than he did?

Plonk Bruno Senna in a Renault alongside Alonso at Melbourne or indeed in any car alongside anybody and he would sink.

Save from a day and half with Honda he's had no testing, with the prospect of no further testing. That would be a bit like dropping your toddler in the deep end of the swimming pool with no armbands.

F1 for Senna in 2009 is finished, he'd be better off returning to iSport for another year in GP2 and hope to make the F1 cut for 2010.

J i m Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Plonk Bruno Senna in a Renault alongside Alonso at
> Melbourne or indeed in any car alongside anybody
> and he would sink.
>

Nope. Correction. "and he would shine." But Briatore would find a way to stop him from doing that, because Alonso is his baby.

> Save from a day and half with Honda he's had no
> testing, with the prospect of no further testing.
> That would be a bit like dropping your toddler in
> the deep end of the swimming pool with no
> armbands.

Yet in only one day he managed to be just less than half a second close to the ultra super mega hiper smooth driving and racing ace Jenson Button. Its a very good starting point.

>
> F1 for Senna in 2009 is finished, he'd be better
> off returning to iSport for another year in GP2
> and hope to make the F1 cut for 2010.

He will be in F1 for sure. He's a future formula one world champion prospect and only Alonso, Kimi and Hammy are above his level at this moment.

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