Hungarian GP Thread **SPOILERS**
Posted by turkey_machine
I agree, according to the italian laws after Roland's death the race should have been cancelled, so we should blame FIA and Ecclestone for it.
"I'm an artist, the track is my canvas, and the car is my brush."
"I'm an artist, the track is my canvas, and the car is my brush."
Exactly.
Nickv Wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> No you should not. It were several factors which lead to Sennas death,
> and you certainly can't blame the FIA for it.
>
>
> Nickv is your WGP/W300 press release service! PM your story!
>
? But my logic says that if FIA followed the italian laws regarding racing events where someone dies and cancelled the race, Senna could still be alive, right?
"I'm an artist, the track is my canvas, and the car is my brush."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> No you should not. It were several factors which lead to Sennas death,
> and you certainly can't blame the FIA for it.
>
>
> Nickv is your WGP/W300 press release service! PM your story!
>
? But my logic says that if FIA followed the italian laws regarding racing events where someone dies and cancelled the race, Senna could still be alive, right?
"I'm an artist, the track is my canvas, and the car is my brush."
Exactly we can only say ifs and buts. Senna and every driver who races accept the risks, hell they even sign a disclaimer basically saying if they die it's not the orgainsers fault.
tbh I don't think that's a valid reason for destroying data which could tell Senna's whole family what caused his death. If someone murdered someone and destroyed the evidence they'd be prosecuted for it so in the end it's not too dissimilar.
Although as far as I'm aware Senna demanded that the steering wheel was moved so he accepted the risks of a dodgy welded steering column. Technically though that would fail a pre-race scruteneering check from my understanding, or it would these days.
Keiran
vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2006 09:54PM by keiran.
Quote
I suppose you'd expect them to keep hold of the data that could possibly destroy them as a team?
tbh I don't think that's a valid reason for destroying data which could tell Senna's whole family what caused his death. If someone murdered someone and destroyed the evidence they'd be prosecuted for it so in the end it's not too dissimilar.
Although as far as I'm aware Senna demanded that the steering wheel was moved so he accepted the risks of a dodgy welded steering column. Technically though that would fail a pre-race scruteneering check from my understanding, or it would these days.
Keiran
vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2006 09:54PM by keiran.
keiran Wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Exactly we can only say ifs and buts. Senna and every driver who races
> accept the risks, hell they even sign a disclaimer basically saying if
> they die it's not the orgainsers fault.
>
Quote:I suppose you'd expect them to keep hold of the data that could
> possibly destroy them as a team?
>
> tbh I don't think that's a valid reason for destroying data which
> could tell Senna's whole family what caused his death. If someone
> murdered someone and destroyed the evidence they'd be prosecuted for
> it so in the end it's not too dissimilar.
>
> Although as far as I'm aware Senna demanded that the steering wheel
> was moved so he accepted the risks of a dodgy welded steering column.
> Technically though that would fail a pre-race scruteneering check from
> my understanding, or it would these days.
>
> Keiran
>
>
> vMax.Keiran
> Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
> www.vMaxSR.com
> www.liveforspeed.net
>
>
>
> Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2006 05:54PM by keiran.
In my view Senna asked the engineers to move the steering wheel to make space for him inside the car to drive, but he didnt realise how exactly they did it... I think they just did it and he didnt asked how they did it, maybe he was shocked by Roland's fatal accident, because in normal conditions Ayrton would ask it to te engineers, its his natural for him to know what they have done with his car... fair enough, just a lack of good relationship between him and the williams crew, completely different from what he had at McLaren... and I remember that Ron Dennis said that he met Ayrton some months after he signed with Williams and he complained about it... and Ron also pointed out that Senna could return to McLaren in 1995 if things at Williams didnt happen as he expected when he signed the contract, but most probably he was planning to sign Ferrari next year, but he died and Michael Schumacher took the contract that was reserved to him.
"I'm an artist, the track is my canvas, and the car is my brush."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Exactly we can only say ifs and buts. Senna and every driver who races
> accept the risks, hell they even sign a disclaimer basically saying if
> they die it's not the orgainsers fault.
>
Quote:I suppose you'd expect them to keep hold of the data that could
> possibly destroy them as a team?
>
> tbh I don't think that's a valid reason for destroying data which
> could tell Senna's whole family what caused his death. If someone
> murdered someone and destroyed the evidence they'd be prosecuted for
> it so in the end it's not too dissimilar.
>
> Although as far as I'm aware Senna demanded that the steering wheel
> was moved so he accepted the risks of a dodgy welded steering column.
> Technically though that would fail a pre-race scruteneering check from
> my understanding, or it would these days.
>
> Keiran
>
>
> vMax.Keiran
> Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
> www.vMaxSR.com
> www.liveforspeed.net
>
>
>
> Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2006 05:54PM by keiran.
In my view Senna asked the engineers to move the steering wheel to make space for him inside the car to drive, but he didnt realise how exactly they did it... I think they just did it and he didnt asked how they did it, maybe he was shocked by Roland's fatal accident, because in normal conditions Ayrton would ask it to te engineers, its his natural for him to know what they have done with his car... fair enough, just a lack of good relationship between him and the williams crew, completely different from what he had at McLaren... and I remember that Ron Dennis said that he met Ayrton some months after he signed with Williams and he complained about it... and Ron also pointed out that Senna could return to McLaren in 1995 if things at Williams didnt happen as he expected when he signed the contract, but most probably he was planning to sign Ferrari next year, but he died and Michael Schumacher took the contract that was reserved to him.
"I'm an artist, the track is my canvas, and the car is my brush."
mikef1 Wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Senna desperately wanted to drive for Ferrari after Williams even if
> they were shite, but to suggest that Schumacher took his contract is
> nonsense, Senna never signed anything with Ferrari.
I didnt said that they had a signed contract. I said that a mutual interest between Senna and Ferrari existed since 1993. But after Senna's death Ferrari decided to go for Michael.
"I'm an artist, the track is my canvas, and the car is my brush."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2006 11:21PM by Senna.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Senna desperately wanted to drive for Ferrari after Williams even if
> they were shite, but to suggest that Schumacher took his contract is
> nonsense, Senna never signed anything with Ferrari.
I didnt said that they had a signed contract. I said that a mutual interest between Senna and Ferrari existed since 1993. But after Senna's death Ferrari decided to go for Michael.
"I'm an artist, the track is my canvas, and the car is my brush."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2006 11:21PM by Senna.
Indeed, Prost was the more likely candidate (for 1996)
so Schumacher basically owes Senna his career. we should call MS a no-title driver, while Senna would be a 10 time champion (at least).
"just a lack of good relationship between him and the williams crew, completely different from what he had at McLaren..."
you don't know how good or bad his relationship was. he was new to the team, so obviouly it won't be as good in the 1st season as it had been for the past 6 years or so.
RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael
"just a lack of good relationship between him and the williams crew, completely different from what he had at McLaren..."
you don't know how good or bad his relationship was. he was new to the team, so obviouly it won't be as good in the 1st season as it had been for the past 6 years or so.
RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael
Mutual interest doesn't mean a reserved contract
"But after Senna's death Ferrari decided to go for Michael."
Revisionism.
Revisionism.
tripleM Wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Indeed, Prost was the more likely candidate (for 1996)
>
>
>
> Bonzo!
Prost?! He was retired and wont come back to Ferrari, even after the incident in 1991 or 1992 when Prost complained about the Ferrari cars saying they are shite and slower than a truck.
But he tested a McLaren in 1995 or 1996.
"I'm an artist, the track is my canvas, and the car is my brush."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Indeed, Prost was the more likely candidate (for 1996)
>
>
>
> Bonzo!
Prost?! He was retired and wont come back to Ferrari, even after the incident in 1991 or 1992 when Prost complained about the Ferrari cars saying they are shite and slower than a truck.
But he tested a McLaren in 1995 or 1996.
"I'm an artist, the track is my canvas, and the car is my brush."
tripleM Wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mutual interest doesn't mean a reserved contract
>
>
>
> Bonzo!
I never said that they had a reserved contract. I just said they had interest.
"I'm an artist, the track is my canvas, and the car is my brush."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2006 11:29PM by Senna.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mutual interest doesn't mean a reserved contract
>
>
>
> Bonzo!
I never said that they had a reserved contract. I just said they had interest.
"I'm an artist, the track is my canvas, and the car is my brush."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2006 11:29PM by Senna.
Senna Wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> keiran Wrote:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Exactly we can only say ifs and buts. Senna and every driver who
> races
> > accept the risks, hell they even sign a disclaimer basically
> saying if
> > they die it's not the orgainsers fault.
> >
> Quote:I suppose you'd expect them to keep hold of the data that could
> > possibly destroy them as a team?
> >
> > tbh I don't think that's a valid reason for destroying data
> which
> > could tell Senna's whole family what caused his death. If
> someone
> > murdered someone and destroyed the evidence they'd be prosecuted
> for
> > it so in the end it's not too dissimilar.
> >
> > Although as far as I'm aware Senna demanded that the steering
> wheel
> > was moved so he accepted the risks of a dodgy welded steering
> column.
> > Technically though that would fail a pre-race scruteneering check
> from
> > my understanding, or it would these days.
> >
> > Keiran
> >
> >
> > vMax.Keiran
> > Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
> > www.vMaxSR.com
> > www.liveforspeed.net
> >
> >
> >
> > Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2006 05:54PM by keiran.
>
>
> In my view Senna asked the engineers to move the steering wheel to
> make space for him inside the car to drive, but he didnt realise how
> exactly they did it... I think they just did it and he didnt asked how
> they did it, maybe he was shocked by Roland's fatal accident, because
> in normal conditions Ayrton would ask it to te engineers, its his
> natural for him to know what they have done with his car... fair
> enough, just a lack of good relationship between him and the williams
> crew, completely different from what he had at McLaren... and I
> remember that Ron Dennis said that he met Ayrton some months after he
> signed with Williams and he complained about it... and Ron also
> pointed out that Senna could return to McLaren in 1995 if things at
> Williams didnt happen as he expected when he signed the contract, but
> most probably he was planning to sign Ferrari next year, but he died
> and Michael Schumacher took the contract that was reserved to him.
hmmm...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> keiran Wrote:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Exactly we can only say ifs and buts. Senna and every driver who
> races
> > accept the risks, hell they even sign a disclaimer basically
> saying if
> > they die it's not the orgainsers fault.
> >
> Quote:I suppose you'd expect them to keep hold of the data that could
> > possibly destroy them as a team?
> >
> > tbh I don't think that's a valid reason for destroying data
> which
> > could tell Senna's whole family what caused his death. If
> someone
> > murdered someone and destroyed the evidence they'd be prosecuted
> for
> > it so in the end it's not too dissimilar.
> >
> > Although as far as I'm aware Senna demanded that the steering
> wheel
> > was moved so he accepted the risks of a dodgy welded steering
> column.
> > Technically though that would fail a pre-race scruteneering check
> from
> > my understanding, or it would these days.
> >
> > Keiran
> >
> >
> > vMax.Keiran
> > Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
> > www.vMaxSR.com
> > www.liveforspeed.net
> >
> >
> >
> > Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2006 05:54PM by keiran.
>
>
> In my view Senna asked the engineers to move the steering wheel to
> make space for him inside the car to drive, but he didnt realise how
> exactly they did it... I think they just did it and he didnt asked how
> they did it, maybe he was shocked by Roland's fatal accident, because
> in normal conditions Ayrton would ask it to te engineers, its his
> natural for him to know what they have done with his car... fair
> enough, just a lack of good relationship between him and the williams
> crew, completely different from what he had at McLaren... and I
> remember that Ron Dennis said that he met Ayrton some months after he
> signed with Williams and he complained about it... and Ron also
> pointed out that Senna could return to McLaren in 1995 if things at
> Williams didnt happen as he expected when he signed the contract, but
> most probably he was planning to sign Ferrari next year, but he died
> and Michael Schumacher took the contract that was reserved to him.
hmmm...
Muks_C Wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> so Schumacher basically owes Senna his career. we should call MS a
> no-title driver, while Senna would be a 10 time champion (at least).
>
> "just a lack of good relationship between him and the williams crew,
> completely different from what he had at McLaren..."
>
> you don't know how good or bad his relationship was. he was new to the
> team, so obviouly it won't be as good in the 1st season as it had been
> for the past 6 years or so.
>
>
>
>
> ATTENTION: the sigpic limit is 20KB, please adhere to it!
>
>
I wasnt complaining about his team relationship. I just posted what Ayrton said about it. And about MS I just posted what happened after 1994, I wasnt complaining that MS took the seat at Ferrari that Senna probably could have. It just happened, but to be honest if San Marino incidents hadnt happened, he could really be a 10-time champion. MS just did what Senna would do, except the dirty tactics used by MS that I dont like.
I am not interested in another Schu-based rant, I just posted the things that happened after Imola.
"I'm an artist, the track is my canvas, and the car is my brush."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> so Schumacher basically owes Senna his career. we should call MS a
> no-title driver, while Senna would be a 10 time champion (at least).
>
> "just a lack of good relationship between him and the williams crew,
> completely different from what he had at McLaren..."
>
> you don't know how good or bad his relationship was. he was new to the
> team, so obviouly it won't be as good in the 1st season as it had been
> for the past 6 years or so.
>
>
>
>
> ATTENTION: the sigpic limit is 20KB, please adhere to it!
>
>
I wasnt complaining about his team relationship. I just posted what Ayrton said about it. And about MS I just posted what happened after 1994, I wasnt complaining that MS took the seat at Ferrari that Senna probably could have. It just happened, but to be honest if San Marino incidents hadnt happened, he could really be a 10-time champion. MS just did what Senna would do, except the dirty tactics used by MS that I dont like.
I am not interested in another Schu-based rant, I just posted the things that happened after Imola.
"I'm an artist, the track is my canvas, and the car is my brush."
The _F1_Lunatic Wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Senna Wrote:
> > and Michael Schumacher took the contract that was reserved to
> him.
>
> hmmm...
>
>
Hmmm, ok, it was my fault. I tried to say that they had mutual interest to work together but seems that I have chosen the wrong words.
"I'm an artist, the track is my canvas, and the car is my brush."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2006 11:37PM by Senna.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Senna Wrote:
> > and Michael Schumacher took the contract that was reserved to
> him.
>
> hmmm...
>
>
Hmmm, ok, it was my fault. I tried to say that they had mutual interest to work together but seems that I have chosen the wrong words.
"I'm an artist, the track is my canvas, and the car is my brush."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2006 11:37PM by Senna.
the changes were made before imola and were tested in spain, hill had the same changes on his car.
senna said he wanted to drive for ferrari even if they were not winning and probably would have gone in 1996 who knows.
i also dont think senna was happy at williams and ron said they did look at getting senna out the contract but senna was an honerable man so stuck to it. why is it even back then people wanted out of williams lolol.
anyway its done no one can change anything
i just wish people would admit roland died on the track and not the helicopter, there would have been no race but thats fate really all about money
senna said he wanted to drive for ferrari even if they were not winning and probably would have gone in 1996 who knows.
i also dont think senna was happy at williams and ron said they did look at getting senna out the contract but senna was an honerable man so stuck to it. why is it even back then people wanted out of williams lolol.
anyway its done no one can change anything
i just wish people would admit roland died on the track and not the helicopter, there would have been no race but thats fate really all about money@ Senna, Senna (the real one 
) said that he respected Fangio so much that he would never equal him, so he probably wouldn't have become a 10-time champ, he would have maybe retired as a 4-time champ.(massive speculation though, obviously, we don't know what would have hapened if he had lived).
RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2006 11:54PM by Muks_C.
) said that he respected Fangio so much that he would never equal him, so he probably wouldn't have become a 10-time champ, he would have maybe retired as a 4-time champ.(massive speculation though, obviously, we don't know what would have hapened if he had lived).RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2006 11:54PM by Muks_C.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.