Hungarian GP Thread **SPOILERS**

Wouldn't work I think. The team gets the same feed as we do, so they can see when the SC comes in. And if they wouldn't show that the drivers would warm up their brakes and tyres all the time I think.

thats y mclaren were so upset not only did kimi crash it cost pedro the win as they were 10 secs ahead of button pedro stopped button did not and due to the saftey car and cars between them he lost to much time

thats racing though but kimis crash affected them twice

they should make the lead car be within 3 seconds behind the SC, then the SC would pull into the pits without warning (keep the lights on all the time), then it's up to the lead car to drive off when he feels like it.

i don't know.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

NO way, some drivers fell asleep, even when they knwo that the safety car is coming in, imagine how would it be it they didn't know

Alonso and Schumi are one of them who usually go away and build a big gap when the restarts, imagine hopw much of a lead they would make having this as an advantage?

yeah but the SC wouldn't just disappear off the track half-way round the lap would it? they'd know when they got nearer the end of the lap that it *could* just pull in, so they would have to be aware in case it did go in.

maybe they should ban the accelerating and braking thing instead, and keep it with the warning? they could still weave side to side, but not go fast and slow down.

yes they would have cold brakes and low tyre pressures, but that's something they have to live with and learn how to cope with when they get to turn 1 after the restart.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

yes they would have cold brakes and low tyre pressures, but that's something they have to live with and learn how to cope with when they get to turn 1 after the restart.

That's one of the possible reasons of Sennas death, I don't think that suggestion will ever be accepted.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2006 10:29PM by Nickv.

Muks_C Wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> yes they would have cold brakes and low tyre pressures, but that's
> something they have to live with and learn how to cope with when they
> get to turn 1 after the restart.
>

It is dangerous!!! And one of the factors why Senna died was the brakes temperatures and tyres pressures. They werent at the right temperature/pressure when the Imola race restarted, and when he entered the Tamburello, he could only brake from 306 kph to something around 130 kph right before the impact. If the tyres and brakes had the right temperature/pressure, he could have reduced a bit more the speed before impact, and the crash probably would not have a such violence.

The last trace of telemetry shows that Senna found himself in trouble and tried to reduce gears and desperately hit the brakes (they were still cold 1 lap after restart), when your steering wheel is broken and you have only small seconds before impact you cant do much to avoid it. Yes he locked the wheels but even If he tried the normal braking procedure, he wouldnt escape from death, because he didnt had enough space to try it.

And regarding tyre pressure, theres no telemetry info about it, seems that Williams destroyed the rest of the telemetry data in the Williams-Renault.

There was also a discussion during the drivers briefing before the race about this issue with the Safety Car.

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"I'm an artist, the track is my canvas, and the car is my brush."

yes i know all that, that is why i said what i said, they would have to practice and do testing on cold brakes and cold tyres so if it happens in a race, they know what to do.

these things weren't known 12 years ago, but now they know what happens to the ride height and brakes when they run slowly behind the SC, so it would be another skill the driver has to learn.

they have to make sure the plank doesn't get worn by a certain amount already, so if they did away with the warning, or did away with warming tyres altogether (as many people have suggested), they could maybe increase that minimum ride height, to account for the drop when the tyres are cold.

remember when Senna died they had no plank, so the few mm drop in ride height caused by the low pressures was enough to (possibly) make the car "skate" on its floor, but nowadays that would not happen, even with very low pressures because they have a larger minimum ride height.

learning how to use cold tyres and brakes is a driver skill, they don't have tyre warmers in American series, they have to warm them by racing.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

Nickv Wrote:
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> That's one of the possible reasons of Sennas death, I don't think that
> suggestion will ever be accepted.
>
>
> Nickv is your WGP/W300 press release service! PM your story!
>
>
>
>
> Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2006 06:29PM by Nickv.

I second that

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"I'm an artist, the track is my canvas, and the car is my brush."

senninho Wrote:
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> @muks: I think the pin is there to act as a guide for the wheel gun.
> I've also read somewhere (and naturally can't remember where ) that
> they can be used to activate the gun without the mechanic needing to
> pull the trigger.

Here you have an explanation:

[sapmats-de.sap-ag.de]

Finally got first 5 laps Alonso onboard:

[rapidshare.de]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2006 06:30PM by requenov.

thanks for the video Requenov, but i have no sound (it's a problem with my codecs), so i will have to update and then listen to what they say.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

Jenson in the paper today.

[www.thesun.co.uk]

must be a slow day for real news...

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

Nah, its The Sun, to them that is A big story.

Ci

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Senna Wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Muks_C Wrote:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > yes they would have cold brakes and low tyre pressures, but
> that's
> > something they have to live with and learn how to cope with when
> they
> > get to turn 1 after the restart.
> >
>
> It is dangerous!!! And one of the factors why Senna died was the
> brakes temperatures and tyres pressures. They werent at the right
> temperature/pressure when the Imola race restarted, and when he
> entered the Tamburello, he could only brake from 306 kph to something
> around 130 kph right before the impact. If the tyres and brakes had
> the right temperature/pressure, he could have reduced a bit more the
> speed before impact, and the crash probably would not have a such
> violence.
>
> The last trace of telemetry shows that Senna found himself in trouble
> and tried to reduce gears and desperately hit the brakes (they were
> still cold 1 lap after restart), when your steering wheel is broken
> and you have only small seconds before impact you cant do much to
> avoid it. Yes he locked the wheels but even If he tried the normal
> braking procedure, he wouldnt escape from death, because he didnt had
> enough space to try it.
>
> And regarding tyre pressure, theres no telemetry info about it, seems
> that Williams destroyed the rest of the telemetry data in the
> Williams-Renault.
>
> There was also a discussion during the drivers briefing before the
> race about this issue with the Safety Car.

We can only speculate into what caused Senna's death, as far as I'm aware there has never been any 100% reason for Senna's death. Having viewed the onboard shots shown in court I still don't believe he lost control, the way he isn't fighting the steering wheel and the way the tyres just point stright. Just seems wrong to me, never have I seen a driver in anything head stright off the road without turning left (in his case). It's just a natural reaction for anyone who drives any sort of car. If you lose control of your road car you'll try and correct it. My personal opinion is the steering column broke and there is no reason that this isn't a possibility. They had cut it and welded it, putting all the strain on the weakest point. The weld.

Anyway the safety car. I reckon the leading driver should have to keep a consistent speed and can accelerate when he chooses. He may not brake and accelerate once the pack comes to the second last corner before the restart.


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:

Yeah, it's quite well known by people who've done their research that Senna's car had some sort of failiure, the tyre pressure theory has too many holes and the fact that Williams "lost" data regarding Senna's last moments means we will never know what really happened.

@keiran: Yeah, the steering wheel broke, but I dont believe that only one factor led to Senna's death, but yes a series of factors (tyres, brakes, safety car, steering wheel) that acted together to cause it. Its the Murphy's Laws: "If anything can go wrong, it will" And everything went wrong in that day.

@mikef1: For me the guys at Williams know what happened in senna's last moments, they listened to the data and after that they "lost" it. Its very clear to me that they are hiding something that put them in the jail. Its something that can prove the horrible negligence they had with Senna's steering wheel column when they welded it.

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"I'm an artist, the track is my canvas, and the car is my brush."

The fact the hill's steering coloum was also not in a good state after the imola GP says it all really.

This tyre theory yes it could happen but why would the front wheels be str8 on a corner, y did senna look in the cockpit?

The only one i think that could be true is senna went over some of the rubbish from the start line crash and ripped a tyre, but the car looked level when it went off.

There was a bump on the track that senna and hill avioded all weekend, on that lap senna hit that bump.

But if the car did slide why did senna not correct the car? williams said the telemtry should the steering was working but this would still show even of the steering wheel was not attached, if was free turning.

At the end of the day we will never know what happened.

But as i said before roland died on the track this was covered up and the race should have never taken place. If your time is up its up

guys, I think its time to stop warming up this Senna debate all the time...

"the fact that Williams "lost" data regarding Senna's last moments"

I suppose you'd expect them to keep hold of the data that could possibly destroy them as a team?

It's happened, it was a tragic day for motorsport, but to keep dwelling on it is pointless. Regardless of how good you may think Senna is, what's done is done.