The 2005 Indianapolis GP Thread [spoiler warning]

Ferrari had nothing to do with today's debacle.

I see Michelin have released a statement:

"

Indianapolis motor speedway has placed the blame squarely on Michelin and the FIA and have told fans to wirte the FIA and Michelin for ticket refunds. Im afraid these poor people will never see a dime.

Jeremy

i think they schould make it up to the fans and it just so happedens they have a off week next weekend get the right tyres to indy and have a full race there next weekend so the fans dont get all pissed off and start the death of F1

Money should be refunded to all the fans. It's the only fair thing to do. But if we know one thing, its that greed runs F1, so they will never see a dime returned. This has set F1 back 20 years in the USA. It wouldn't surprise me now if they cancel next years Indy event altogether.

This is what happens will billionaire old men like Max Mosely and Bernie Ecclestone run a sport with an iron hand. No compromise, no innovation, profit means everything.

I hold Ferrari completely blameless, just like Rubens said in the post race interview, people point at Ferrari and gripe when something goes their way, but they all sneer in enjoyment and laugh when things go against Ferrari. How hypocritical.

Bottom line: Michelin showed up for a race weekend with a shoddy product, and now are using "safety" as an excuse for their poor craftsmanship. No doubt they will crow at Magny Cours about how dominant they are, and puff their corporate chest out with false pride in their home GP. Never mind the American fans they, Bernie, and Max just screwed ...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2005 01:37AM by Jagdpanzer.

Jagdpanzer Wrote:
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>
> This is what happens will billionaire old men like
> Max Mosely and Bernie Ecclestone run a sport with
> an iron hand. No compromise, no innovation, profit
> means everything.
>




Surely if that was the case that all they are bothered about is profit, then they would have done everything to avoid what happened today to ensure they get maximum profit out it




LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

and i will point out once again that without Mosely and Ecclestone, there would be no F1.



RedSam
Winner: Not the Nickv Comment of the Year 2009
Due to the voting system in Germany, Governments are always made up of coalitions of different parties. At the last election, an almost unprecidented result saw the CDU/CSU (rough equivilant of the Conservatives) go into Government with the SPD (rough equivilant of Labour)

JAGNPANZER

your sooo Right.

F1 is driven by greed and selfishness..

Jeremy

Their replacements could do just as well.

Conjecture,i know.

I think David Coulthard summed everything up quite well...

Jeremy

fecking Shumi and Rubenz said that they could have won anyway...because there car was fast
yeah right...
and the Schumi pit think was just and act...to make some thing of the race...



Ferrai fans are realy a shock for me...
like team like fans....


i was hoping that all the fans on the track will through stuff to the circute

ok Michelin fecked up
but Ferrari could have fixed the situation
Fia or trakc offical could not refues ten teams demand of a chican
or they will be no race are all
Ferrari screwd 6 billion didcated f1 fans just to get 18 points
and then Schumacher acts sad...feck him
Minardi was not to race..but Stodart said they raced because Jordan did
i missed two important exams just wasting time watching free practic and s**t...
what makes me more sad is that nothing is gonna chane...what happend today is soon to be forgoten...
Ferrari are back to the challange...
Mclaren were the only losers...because the less races the better for Renaults....


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A lot of people are throwing anger around in here...

Red Sam has made a thread about the way this discussion has progressed and the lack of manners that seems to be "acceptable". I think this debacle is far from being over. So we need to brace ourselves for that. Therefore I encourage all to read that thread:

[www.grandprixgames.org]


Even if you don't I would like to repeat my post there:

It so happens to be, that what is considered "healthy" for the individual forum member, can be unhealthy for the forums as a whole.

I have to agree with Red Sam. I posted some words of caution in the thread, and that seemed to work for a while. Even moved my TV next to my computer so I could alternate between the two. But the scope of this is beyond what I think we mods can control without the usage of a lot of force.

I have been to enough demonstrations to know that if the "riot squad" steps in, mob mentality is so, that all the anger will go towards them instead of the original cause. So instead of bringing out the tear gas and handcuffs, I would like to say, that I echo the words of Red Sam.

Express your disappointment, but show some restrain and decency. Nobody here had any part in what happened today. 6 cars raced, there was 1 winner and the whole of motorsports as losers.

Don't be one yourself. Be part of building the forum as you would like to see it tomorrow.

---

It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2005 01:46AM by Morbid.

Whilst it's understandable to be irritated by Michelin, the FIA and Ferrari should also square some of the blame. Yes, Michelin turned up to the circuit and had a lot of tyre failures. Had this not happened, the race would have gone ahead.

But Michelin - and the Michelin teams - proposed a number of different situations to allow the teams to race. Whether it was a chicane, non-championship event, Bridgestone at the front of the grid or whatever, the FIA and Ferrari said no.

IMO, Jordan should also shoulder some blame, and I lay that blame with Colin Kolles, and the Jordan sporting director. According to Paul Stoddart, Jordan said they'd refuse to run unless a chicane was put in before turn 13. They went back on this, and Stoddart was effectively forced into running. Had Jordan stayed with their word, Ferrari would be the only ones racing. And the FIA would have to act, even if it meant Ferrari pulling out of the GP in protest at the conditions.

Today was an exceptionally avoidable situation from a lot of parties, and not just Michelin. They did light the initial fire, and then attemped to put it out. Seems the FIA, Ferrari, and Jordan wanted to keep it going.

I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in..

First the amount of ferrari bashing is astonishing, why are ferrari being blamed for michelin failing to provide an adequate tyre, the fia had final say over a chicane and if it had been reversed you can bet one of the michelin teams would have been against bridgestone being allowed new tyres.

I did want to see all the cars running but whichever way they did it michelin cars should have had to suffer a penalty so they didn't get away scott free. Letting michelin run but without scoring points could have been dangerous, you could have cars backing up the ferraris so jordan won, or just taking the ferrari's out, they have nothing to lose.

This race reaffirmed my hatred of James Allen, he spent the entire race whining like a little kid as did ted kravitz, louise and jim, the people who really don't seem to care about the sport whined all the way through. Martin and mark both seemed to take it on the chin but martin was at least trying to put a brave face on it.

I also felt allen's comment about that being the only trophy montiero will get was harsh, who is he to say that, it's one more trophy than the excuse of a human being james allen has himself won. I hope montiero does well now just to prove allen wrong.

The spectators should be given refunds, perhaps if it wasn't a 19 race calender they would go back later in the year but i doubt that, i do feel sorry for all the people that went to see it.

Still the race happened its over, its gone down in history and it will only be the death of f1 if people, including a lot of those in this forum, continue to harp on about something that can no longer be changed. get over it

"They went back on this, and Stoddart was effectively forced into running."

Stoddart would make a good salesman.

Pulling out and disregarding FIA suggestions is not attempting to put out the fire.

Whenever Bridgestone don't have a tyre as suitable as their opponent's they race,at reduced speed with little chance of winning or sometimes even scoring but still race.

what a lame excuse from Schumi

Q: I understand you didn't make the decision but can you tell me why Ferrari was not in favor of having a chicane put in 13 at the last minute?

Michael Schumacher: I tell you one story. Not so long ago in Monza, we had the death of a marshal, and all of us drivers agreed we would want for the first two chicanes yellow flags. And there was no less than two or three team owners which told their drivers you would not respect the yellow flag. Just ignore what you have maybe said or not said, we want you to race and we force you to race. And it's the same people that have been today on the other side. So Formula One is a tough business, we're working very hard. As I mentioned before, we have had a tire which is quicker. We didn't use that because we knew what is going to face us here. I'm not saying that the others purposely choose something wrong but whatever it is, it is their problem, not our problem. And I don't think you can ask the people who are not responsible to take the responsibility.


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They are not responsible.

What is lame about that?

guys please understand this

first am sorry for all the swering
second...
we Knew it was Michelin's fault
but Ferrari are the bad guys here
we are not talking about allowing one team to race
we are talking about 7
imagine if the Jordan's and Minardi's didn't race...
Ferrari are too greedy...to say yes for the chicane...
Michael is to balme too...he have a heard word in Ferrai...
he could have said no...
forgot about Ferrari...screwing the 7 teams...
and remember ferrari screwing you and all F1 fans

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so you're saying if one team is affected then they are stuck with it, but because its more teams then changing the rules is ok. thats just so wrong, the rules apply to everybody

I fully agree with Zcott I think it is wrong to blame a single team/manufacturer/governing body for what happened today. Michelin are clearly to blame for bringing the wrong tyre to Indianapolis but its not like they did it intentionally. Everyone should have worked together to find a solution. It was clear that the options given to michelin were unsafe and not acceptable. The michelin runners did the only sensible thing by pulling out of the event, a serious accident today would have hurt the sport even more than the poor excuse of a race we had to endure.

I think a chicane should have been installed, the cars should have run in qualifying order and the points should count towards the championship. In effect the race we should have had, had the tyre issue not arose, just with the added chicane. However in addition to this I think the three bridgstone teams should have been awarded bonus points (10-8-6-5-4-3) based on their final race positions in relation to each other minus the michelin runners.

look at this marshal reaction when the cars pulled out







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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2005 02:29AM by Hakkinenf1.