suspended mclaren employee is mike coughlan

What is funny is the fact ferrari could be fined for the things they are saying about the motor sport council lol.

first post for a long time,
and as everyone else seems to have had a go, here's my 2 pence worth,


Part of the conditions of entry to formula one is that a team is responsible for the
actions of its employees

a mclaren employee was in possesion of confidential documents belonging to ferrari.

This was a breach of the regulations, therefore the team has to answer a charge.

In the end Mclaren were found guilty of this charge, a point which they dont dispute


with regard the contention with penalties (or lack of them)

whilst any punishment clearly must fit the crime, in law its all about precidents.
and FIA have already set their own precident when they let Toyota off for doing pretty much the
same thing.

a ban or deduction of points is a serious penalty and the FIA clearly did not have the evidence they would need to back up such a move if mclaren appealed or took the case to the high court (no doubt citing the toyota and spiker incidents).

indeed prior to the hearing one of the members of the tribunal admitted that actually proving that an advantage was gained was going to be almost impossible.

As a result, all they can be found guilty of is having the document in the first place, so the FIA has had no choice but to let them off and warn them of future conduct.

Judging by the comments on here fine would have gone some way to appease some people, i'm inclined to agree and i'd imagine mclaren would have accepted it.
However, we're back to previous cases again, toyota weren't fined, spiker weren't fined so on what basis should mclaren be?


with regards the movable floor. i actually find it rather amusing that ferrari don't want to push this issue despite it being pretty much the same situation.

ie, confidential technical information about the ferrari was passed to other teams(possibly through the same stepney coughlan connection)

but of course they dont,

in this case it was Ferrari that were cheating.

Mclaren/others found out about this and brought it to the attention of the stewards.

ferrari got off and don't want to push their luck.
(they destroyed the opposition in australia when their cars were using it and FIA could have go so far as to disqualified them from the result.)

and reading some of their comments on autosport, the words pot, kettle and black spring to mind.

Ferrari have historically been one of the most self centered and unsporting teams in formula 1.
(and i'm not just talking about the stuff that happend during the schumacher era)
now i'm not for a moment saying Mclaren are a bunch of angels(they clearly arent), but people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones


Its frustrating because this kind of thing is exactly what F1 doesnt need right now.

after the schumacher dominated yawn fests of recent years we now have a genuine 4 way fight for the title, no holes barred, everyman for himself.
its been fantastic to watch and is pulling back the fans who've switch off over the last few years.
yet all we've been hearing for the past month or so is this rubbish.

The stupidity of those who've cause all this is mind boggling, what were they thinking?

I can only hope that this is the end of it as far as mclaren are concerned and we can get on with watching what promises to be a fantastic end to the season without the threat of protests and points deduction hanging over it.

unfortuantly the italian legal system is now involved and I don't imagine that ferrari are going to let it go quietly(which i can understand, but i'd hope now that they are
going after the people involved rather than looking for penalties against other teams and drivers)

its clearly going run for months if not years.

very sad indeed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2007 01:28PM by marwood82.

This made me laugh

"Former Ferrari driver Mika Salo said the scandal was nothing new.

"When I was driving for Ferrari we always spied on McLaren, listening their radio traffic. After every practice session I had in front of me, on paper, all the discussions Mika Hakkinen had had with his engineer," he told Finnish newspaper Ilta-Sanomat."

I think mclaren might need extra security when they go to Monza.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2007 01:52PM by marcl.

i also read somehwere on the 'net the other day that someone hacked into the McLaren radio system and told Mika to come in for the extra pitstop he made in Melbourne '98 (remember when he came into the pits for some reason, giving the lead to Coulthard, then when the team told DC that a mistake had happened, DC let Mika pass him for the win?)

Ron let it slip that someone hacked their radios. will try to find it and post the link.

---

RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

Yes Ron said that after Monaco when Mclaren were being told off for team orders.

I also remember Brazil 1990 when the ferrari team boss sent his daughter into the mclaren pit only mclaren did not know it was his daughter. She had pics taken next to the mclaren from all different angles.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2007 02:06PM by marcl.

Muks_C Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i also read somehwere on the 'net the other day
> that someone hacked into the McLaren radio system
> and told Mika to come in for the extra pitstop he
> made in Melbourne '98 (remember when he came into
> the pits for some reason, giving the lead to
> Coulthard, then when the team told DC that a
> mistake had happened, DC let Mika pass him for the
> win?)
>
> Ron let it slip that someone hacked their radios.
> will try to find it and post the link.

Ah I remember that. Don't remember hearing that it was a hacked radio system that caused Mike to pit though. I await your finding the source.

here it is: [www.formulaf1.com]

i'd never heard of it before either, so it came as a surprise to me too.

i always thought it was just some mis-communication.

---

RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

Mclaren kept it quiet at the time it was only a few months back we found out.

It was probably overshadowed by DC letting Mika win, we thought because of a pre-race agreement (whoever led into T1 would be allowed to win).

I just think each story casts doubt over the other.

well the pre-race arrangement still can be true, this radio-hacking thing is only an explanation for Mika's extra pitstop.

---

RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

I remember after the race mika saying he thought he had been called into the pits but when he got there there was no one there.

exactly, that's why they told DC what had happened, then it was up to him (DC) to decide whether he wanted to honour their arrangement or not, and we all know he did.

DC should have put in a clause with Mika, that if either of them fecks up for whatever reason, then the arrangement is off!

---

RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

marcl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One question that does not to be asked is did the
> information go both ways? someone at ferrari gave
> the ferrari plans to Mike now did he give this
> person the mclaren plans?
>
> Chances are if he did they would have been
> destroyed by the person but who knows.


i agree totally with this. if McLaren were punished, then surely Ferrari should be as well, after all one of thir employess (which they are 'responsible' for) has stolen confidential inofrmation and distributed it. He is just as responsible for bring sport into disrepute/unfair sporting conduct etc as Coughlan

Sim

---

All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!

"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole

sasjag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> marcl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > One question that does not to be asked is did
> the
> > information go both ways? someone at ferrari
> gave
> > the ferrari plans to Mike now did he give this
> > person the mclaren plans?
> >
> > Chances are if he did they would have been
> > destroyed by the person but who knows.
>
>
> i agree totally with this. if McLaren were
> punished, then surely Ferrari should be as well,
> after all one of thir employess (which they are
> 'responsible' for) has stolen confidential
> inofrmation and distributed it. He is just as
> responsible for bring sport into disrepute/unfair
> sporting conduct etc as Coughlan

I like your thinking. Ferrari failed to keep one of their employees under control.



Not anti-Ferrari or McLaren btw. Pro Kimi and Pro McLaren.

I think neither Ferrari or McLaren should be punished. Coughlan and Stepney should be punished, hard. They are the ones responsible for this, not the teams. The things that happened, happened totally outside both teams, so it would be unfair to punish them.

i hope this answers a lot of people's questions

this got my attention

Finally, it should be noted that yesterday's meeting was not an appearance before a tribunal, but a meeting of the FIA World Council, at which only McLaren was asked to respond to accusations and in which we were present only as observers.

"Therefore there was no possibility to play an active role as we would have wished. I was only able to ask a few questions and reply to some, but we were not able to present our case nor the documents to support it.

i think the descicion was made before the meeting took place

[www.autosport.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2007 08:27AM by Slash.

Tbh i dont know what to beleive anymore. Todt is saying stuff other people are saying other things.

If Ron did say them things I am sure the FIA would have acted differently as Todt is saying they used the info but the FIA have said mclaren did not.

Todt is the only one giving information from the hearing that was meant to be held behind closed doors and as I said before it wont be long till the FIA pull ferrari in to fine them for bringing the sport into disriput.

The FIA found that mclaren had the stuff but were happy they did not use it, ferrari are saying other things.

And as we were told if it is prooven mclaren use/used info they will be pulled in again.

Ferrari still had the fastest car in Sepang, Baraihn, Spain and this was after the floor got changed.

The ferrari racing now is different from the one mclaren had the plans for anyway, ferrari made big changes for Spain and thats when mclaren seemed to be faster, then they changed it again for France and started winning again.

The ferrari mclaren had the plans for beat the mclaren, the ferrari drivers messed up sepang due to their starts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2007 10:26AM by marcl.

As a few above have also said, I think if McLaren are to be punished, so should Ferrari.

Just read an article in the paper where Ferrari say McLaren should be held responsible for Coughlan's actions as they are a team and Coughlan is part of that team.

Ferrari are also a team and Stepney (or whoever) is part of that team. Therefore, Ferrari are responsible for sending McLaren the documents. So either no-one should be punished (Ferrari willingly gave McLaren the documents) or both should be punished equally.

You can't treat one as a team and not the other.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2007 06:30PM by Fourjays.

marcl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tbh i dont know what to beleive anymore. Todt is
> saying stuff other people are saying other
> things.
>
> If Ron did say them things I am sure the FIA would
> have acted differently as Todt is saying they used
> the info but the FIA have said mclaren did not.
>
> Todt is the only one giving information from the
> hearing that was meant to be held behind closed
> doors and as I said before it wont be long till
> the FIA pull ferrari in to fine them for bringing
> the sport into disriput.
>
> The FIA found that mclaren had the stuff but were
> happy they did not use it, ferrari are saying
> other things.


they're not "happy (satisfied) they (did or) did not use it", they just can't prove it either way. they are still suspicious of McLaren and if anything happens in the coming months that suggests it came from the documents, McLaren will be in court again.

I know you didn't mean it like that, but am just re-wording it.

---

RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

Muks_C Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I know you didn't mean it like that, but am just
> re-wording it.

werd.