Belgium Grand Prix 2008 ***SPOILERS***

marcl, when did alonso and kimi do that? Yes Alonso in Japan 2005, but he gave back the position later on, fair and square, any other times i cant remember when they did it...

They said he deserved a penalty yes but the one given was harsh, that to me says they think the one given does not fit the crime.

Lewis coments does not seem to bother kimi, and he does have a point lol.

Kimi knew he was coming into the pits so he is a bit silly spinning the car 1 corner before, kimi pitting could also explain why massa did not stop as kimi would have still been in the pits.

Kimi had the race had he pitted he would have caught lewis so he through that win away.

As people have said before Renault were told later they did not need to give the place back a 2nd time and alonso still did that move, so it shows lewis is not the only one who done that.

Kimi passed alonso in Italy 2006 cutting a corner giving the place back then passing him again.

People have a short memory when it comes to things lewis does, others have done the same in the past.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2008 09:58AM by marcl.

it doesnt matter if this comments bother kimi or not, this just proves how pathetic hypocrat hamilton is. everybody is wrong and he is right (at least he thinks so). all the great champions never made such comments about their opponents, hamilton is the first to do so. he must realize that he isnt on haiti (or where his father came from) anymore.

marcl Wrote:
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> They said he deserved a penalty yes but the one
> given was harsh, that to me says they think the
> one given does not fit the crime.

They could have given him a 10 place drop for the next event. Perhaps Monza apart (we'll wait and see), at any other track, you'd take the 25 second penalty for the 2 place drop, so in that sense, maybe they did him a favour by giving him the lesser of the 2 options apparently available to them.


marcl Wrote:
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> Lewis coments does not seem to bother kimi, and he
> does have a point lol.

It had nothing to do with balls. Kimi didn't have the confidence to brake late. It's not like you're going to sale off the track and have a massive accident if you broke 5 metre too late.

It's just Lewis's head growing again.


marcl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kimi knew he was coming into the pits so he is a
> bit silly spinning the car 1 corner before, kimi
> pitting could also explain why massa did not stop
> as kimi would have still been in the pits.

Hamilton was a bit silly spinning after 1 lap with an already solid lead. @#$%& happens. It wasn't far from a lottery.


marcl Wrote:
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> As people have said before Renault were told later
> they did not need to give the place back a 2nd
> time and alonso and alonso still did that move.

We only have Ted Kravitz's word on that though (unless someone else from another broadcaster can back it up, and even then it's not an official word, just what some random Renault mechanic probably told them). Ted Kravitz. L'idiot.

Massa:

Quote:
What happened is that he took an advantage by cutting the chicane

Borudais:

Quote:
"I think it is very clear, the rules are clear," he said. "Maybe the penalty is very hard but he has made the same mistake twice, he did in Magny-Cours and he did it in Spa.

"I don't really understand why there is such a mess around it, there is a rule book and everyone has to obey the same thing. The penalty is rough but it is up to you to give the position back."

Rosberg:

Quote:
"He did have an advantage because he would not be so close if he had not cut the chicane but the penalty was a bit harsh as it did not have a big result in the end result.

Trulli:

Quote:
"I agree the penalty was quite big but I am not a steward. But it is also clear he got an advantage," he said.

"The rules are very clear, if you cut the chicane you get the advantage you have to drop it and lose advantage, in Lewis' case he should not attack in the first corner that is it.

Fisichella:

Quote:
For sure maybe he took a small advantage that is why he had the possibility to overtake him again in braking for Turn One, but obviously 25 seconds penalty was quite a strong penalty."

Alonso:

Quote:
"Lewis had an advantage by doing that. If he did the chicane properly, he would never have crossed the line one metre behind Kimi. You lose five or ten metres and then you cannot overtake in Turn 1."

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Coulthard also doesnt understand, why hamilton doesnt admit that he got an advantage after cutting the chicane.

probably due to the fact that he does not think he did? lewis has already said people see things different.

He has already said he gave the place back, and kimi broke to early into the 1st corner and thats why he passed.

The thing is, is it worth a 25 sec penalty? I dont think so when people have got less for worse things.

yeah probably, but obviously he did something wrong, if all other drivers say so, dont you think so? he just thinks that the world is against him, and then he makes such stupid and disrespectfull comments about his opponents, that any unbiased person would puke.

He did not give the place back, and he used the mometum gained by skipping the course to make a pass.

The thing is, is it worth a 25 sec penalty? I dont think so when people have got less for worse things.

If it was anything but a 25 second penalty, you would be in here bitching the FIA weren't applying the rules correctly.

Fact - Lewis gained an advantage from skipping the chicane.
Fact - Skipping the chicane is an offense punishable with a drive through penalty
Fact - A drive through penalty issued at the end of the race takes the form of a 25 second penalty to the drivers final race time.
Fact - The FIA applied the penalty as the rules state it should be.

You guys bitch and cry when the FIA do not apply the rules like you claim they should. Now they have applied the rules to the letter exactly, and there is more bitching and crying than ever before.

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SexySam182 Wrote:
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> I think you will find both Trulli and Bourdias
> said the penalty was harsh but Hamilton deserved
> it.
>
> I dont understand why people are confused what the
> penalty is for. It is for both the cutting the
> chicane and thus carrying an advantage into turn
> 1.
>
> Now Hamilton has said Kimi didnt 'have the balls
> to break late'. Hamilton just makes it so easy for
> to dislike him.
>
> And as an aside, is Planetf1 the most biased
> website on the net?

if hamilton really said that, then he really is a cocky british whinger, not taking into account that some cars work different under changing conditions, each car uses their tyres different, instead he resorts to what basically accounts to personal insults.
And yes planet-f1 sucks, it isnt news on their its oppinions, and very biased to pro british, pro hamilton.

Hamilton said that alright but its got nothing to do with kimi having no balls to brake late it was just is style

Braking earlier meant he could get on the power earlier which is why he slightly tapped Hamiltons rear end in T1.
Hamilton braked late which is why he was slower through the apex and thats why he got tapped.

Maybe next time he should try using his great driving and be fast through the apex and break late..

Ok fair enough but if you apply the rules then Kimi sould have have got a penalty for Monaco, massa should have got one for the pit stop and kimi should have been pulled in to the pit in France. Simple as that.

Its ok to apply penalties but give them out properly to everyone that does something wrong.

You can not fine someone for something like unsafe release from the pits when that carries a drive through penalty.

fair enough alot of you dont like lewis who really cares, but people have done worse this year and got away with it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2008 10:52AM by marcl.

marcl Wrote:
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> probably due to the fact that he does not think he
> did? lewis has already said people see things
> different.
>
> He has already said he gave the place back, and
> kimi broke to early into the 1st corner and thats
> why he passed.
>
> The thing is, is it worth a 25 sec penalty? I dont
> think so when people have got less for worse
> things.

did he really brake too early? its wet conditions, and he probably braked according to how much grip he was feeling under the car. hamilton obviously had better grip, but he still got an advantage from cutting the chicane, which e didnt need to do, his car was faster and he shouldve had patience, not going for a do or die manouvre, then cutting the chicane when it didnt work.

Ok fair enough but if you apply the rules then Kimi sould have have got a penalty for Monaco, massa should have got one for the pit stop and kimi should have been pulled in to the pit in France. Simple as that.

2 Wrongs do not make a right. You cannot say because Kimi did not get a penalty that Lewis did not deserve one.

This just further proves my point anyway. Don't apply the rules - bitching. Apply the rules - bitching.

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No not at all it just shows if they can not apply the rules all the time then get people in that can. You can not let one driver not get a penalty then apply one to someone else.

The same with massa, they broke a rule they got fined but it should not have been a fine it should have been a penalty.

That is why people get anoyed with it all.

Just as you have your views other have theirs, if the FIA are going to impose a penalty with the affect it has then they should have done the same in the previous race when rules were broken.

We have seen these mind games before in F1 with MS, Alonso, Kimi, Senna,Prost, Mansell. But lewis does it and its omg.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2008 12:09PM by marcl.

marcl schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They said he deserved a penalty yes but the one
> given was harsh, that to me says they think the
> one given does not fit the crime.
>
> Lewis coments does not seem to bother kimi, and he
> does have a point lol.
>
> Kimi knew he was coming into the pits so he is a
> bit silly spinning the car 1 corner before, kimi
> pitting could also explain why massa did not stop
> as kimi would have still been in the pits.
>
> Kimi had the race had he pitted he would have
> caught lewis so he through that win away.
>
> As people have said before Renault were told later
> they did not need to give the place back a 2nd
> time and alonso still did that move, so it shows
> lewis is not the only one who done that.
>
> Kimi passed alonso in Italy 2006 cutting a corner
> giving the place back then passing him again.
>
> People have a short memory when it comes to things
> lewis does, others have done the same in the past.

from what i remember is that kimi was already in front, then missed the chicane, and came back in front, so whats the advantage of that?

Ive just looked what you said marcl, its monza 2005, kimi is already passed alonso, and brakes to late, but alonso brakes to late to and misses the chicane to, so they both have missed it, and they both kinda rejoined where they went off.

Ok thats ok then, i could not remember it fully.

But if you go off making a pass I thought u had to hand it back? What if a wall had been there or gravel



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2008 12:53PM by marcl.

DaveEllis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> 2 Wrongs do not make a right. You cannot say
> because Kimi did not get a penalty that Lewis did
> not deserve one.
>
> This just further proves my point anyway. Don't
> apply the rules - bitching. Apply the rules -
> bitching.



yeah its a bit like in football, its always easy to blame the ref.

though the FIA and stewards do seem to be making it a bit easier for people to have a go at them at the moment. A little more consistency would go a long way.(again, rather a lot like football)

very interesting blog about the paddock's opinion of the penalty

[www.autosport.com]

excerpt:
"By and large, there wasn't a great deal of support for McLaren's protest.

Oh, there was some sympathy that the punishment didn't fit the crime, that maybe a blind eye should have been turned to an incident which had no bearing on the final result, or that if the stewards really wanted a physical penalty a ten-place drop for Monza would have been more appropriate.

But no one could get one of Hamilton's 19 fellow drivers, for example, to say that he shouldn't have been penalised. And despite the best efforts of the media, the best we could get was that the punishment didn't fit the crime."



EDIT: now the FIA has clarified the chicane cutting rules
"they should wait at least one corner before resuming a fight for position in the event of future chicane-cutting incidents."
[www.autosport.com]

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X (@ed24f1)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2008 07:43PM by SchueyFan.