Belgium Grand Prix 2008 ***SPOILERS***

&fmt=18

He was allowed to keep the place as massa hit his rear wheel and put him off the road. But if that happened now I dont think he would get away with it.

In 13 races Lewis has had 5 penalties this year.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2008 01:00PM by marcl.

Talking about Piquet, no-one really picked up on him crashing out again. Are Renault likely to give him another chance next year?

Marc I can only count 4 penalties, he blocked Heidfeld on his fast lap during qualifying in Malaysia, took out Kimi (at the time his main rival) in Canada, cut the chicane to pass Vettel in France and did the same to pass Kimi in Belgium.

People think its a conspiracy, its not though, Hamilton breaks the rules, he gets the correct punishment.

---

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2008 02:10PM by SexySam182.

Last season Hamilton get away without penalties because he was a rookie this year they won't let him that easily, every penalty he has been given have been fully deserved.

chet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I half expected the race to be stopped.

just because the drivers decided not to change tyres, they should not stop the race i think. as heidfeld and alonso proved, the conditions were managable with wet tyres.

---

X (@ed24f1)

Yes but other people have got away without penalties thats the problem and I think thats what people are getting at. Lewis has got a penalty for just about everything kimi and massa have not.

No mater what people say France kimi should have been flagged to have that part removed.

Monaco kimi should have got a penalty.

Then the pit stop ferrari got fined so rule must have been broken, so where is the penalty?

Thats why people are anoyed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2008 03:26PM by marcl.

Ive noticed a few people saying 'i cant believe Massa didnt pit for tyres', my response to that is that it was too big a risk, they did not know that the difference in lap times would be that big, and he needs all the championship points he can get. Heidfeld and Alonso could afford to take the risk.

massa has won, so why take other tyres?

Marc the thing is that it's not an automatic "monoview" thing, we can't simply interpret everything that happens as the same if so we wouldn't need ppl to look at it, the Valencia case is the best example to give, there they had options of punishments, the guys interpreted it as a light issue so just gave it a fine. Others may say "but had a person be there atm", "had pit exit be larger" etc... but the fact is that they don't work with these possibilities, just with what happened so the point of these thingies vary from case to case some times in same event. Back to Valencia they just considered that there no damage was caused, noone got advantage from that pit (infact Felipe was the one who had to brake ,so if anything , he lost time) with these things in consideration no point to give a punishment other than a fine and that's okay, in Chandhok episode they just analysed and considerend it was infact happening in a different way, and so the consequences were others,then reached at the conclusion they should give him a harsher penalty based in that.
Reading many posts, have an impression that infact many ppl do not, or have dificulty to comprehend yet about this ( not marcl's case who is already an experienced person ) so some when seeing different ways of deal about the outcome of an episode tends to think it's about insconsistency, conspiracy, etc...

marcl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No mater what people say France kimi should have
> been flagged to have that part removed.
>
> Monaco kimi should have got a penalty.
>
> Then the pit stop ferrari got fined so rule must
> have been broken, so where is the penalty?
>
> Thats why people are anoyed.
the rule was broken that’s why they got fined, teams later complained so FIA made stricter rules after a meeting with the teams, Bruno Senna was first victim of that

Penalty for what? For spinning on a damp track? Come on, then Lewis should have been penalised in spa for his spin on lap 2 as well.

In the past people have had parts hanging on the cars by a wire and were never called in like JPM in Canada or the Renault in Sepang a few years ago while some like Schumacher in Australia was called in

[www.autosport.com]





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2008 05:05PM by Stan.

After Trulli, Rubens and Alonso (and obvously Massa and Kimi), now Heidfeld and Bourdais too say Hamilton's penalty was fair.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2008 05:31PM by Rodrigo007.

The penalty is nothing short of disgusting. Ask yourself this, if a Ferrari had done the same thing would they have been penalised? The answer is no. The race at Valencia proves this.

Hamilton was pushed off the track, it was either cut the chicane or crash into Raikkonen which would have ended both of their races. He got passed afterwards partly because of Raikkonen's poor defensive driving but mostly because the McLaren was simply better in those conditions. He did not gain an advantage from cutting the chicane, if Raikkonen had given him the room to stay on the track Hamilton would have passed him long before La Source. If that straight was long enough to give Hamilton a slipsteam I would have said yes, he clearly gained an advantage. But it isn't, therefore I fail to see where he got this "advantage." But this does not appear to have been taken into consideration.

I am a fan of Hamilton so of course I am naturally biased. But after thinking about this penalty since Sunday I still cannot fathom why the stewards came to this decision.

I was at Spa myself, spent hundreds of pounds going to see that race and had a fantastic weekend. To have the result meddled like this is farcical and a slap in the face to the people in attendance. A shame a classic race has been ruined by some faceless stewards.

_____________________________________________________________________________





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2008 08:00PM by FRESCO.

It's really quite remarkable that in a post of 240 words, I manage to disagree with every single one of them.

Sorry FRESCO, as I believe you're a decent member here with good, strong posts most of the time, but that post is made entirely of beyond biased crap.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2008 08:07PM by gav.

Kimi said he was ready to pit for tyres on that last lap. Shame he just couldnt keep the car on the road! Coulda seen him with a battle with Hamilton for the lead in the middle to last section of track!

"I would have come in, but I never made the last 100 metres," Raikkonen told reporters at Monza. "I was coming in to change the tyres and probably it could have worked out very well but I never got there."

[www.autosport.com]

FRESCO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The penalty is nothing short of disgusting. Ask
> yourself this, if a Ferrari had done the same
> thing would they have been penalised? The answer
> is no. The race at Valencia proves this.
>
> Hamilton was pushed off the track, it was either
> cut the chicane or crash into Raikkonen which
> would have ended both of their races. He got
> passed afterwards partly because of Raikkonen's
> poor defensive driving but mostly because the
> McLaren was simply better in those conditions. He
> did not gain an advantage from cutting the
> chicane, if Raikkonen had given him the room to
> stay on the track Hamilton would have passed him
> long before La Source.

No he didn’t, stop talking balls, he choose to cut the track when he could have braked, just look at the onboard video, Kimi stayed ahead only cause he had more grip coming out of the corner then Lewis, it’s not the first time Lewis has done this and it won’t be the last I’m pretty sure of that. He just lives on the edge of what is allowed and what is not just like Michael Schumacher and Ayrton Senna used to do, and sometimes he gets caught sometimes he doesn’t and Ron has been caught telling lies one too many times these past years i wonder why people still believe him.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2008 08:37PM by Stan.

FRESCO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The penalty is nothing short of disgusting. Ask
> yourself this, if a Ferrari had done the same
> thing would they have been penalised? The answer
> is no. The race at Valencia proves this.
>
> Hamilton was pushed off the track,


simply not true. there was enough room to stay within the confines of the track. Kimi knew he was there once Lewis outbraked him, he would have taken avoiding action had Lewis stayed on the track.

---

RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

If track and grass are same thing, then I wud even agree.

Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?

Even if Hamilton couldn't stay on the race track (and the vast majority now seem to think he could have done), then had he just run a bit wider in order to miss Kimi, then rejoined immediately, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Hamilton put himself in that position. Did he/you just expect Kimi to wave a white flag? Kimi had the corner. Hamilton out-braked him, but put himself in a position with nothing to gain. Until he took the easy way out.

I don't care which way this stewards thing goes. If they're penalising him for just cutting the chicane, then it's poor. If they're penalising him for the position he gave himself by cutting the chicane, then he deserves a penalty. Regardless, they should be looking at things from the latter point of view, because if they scrub this penalty out, F1 is just going to be a farce.

Overtaking should be difficult. We all want it to be made easier, but to the point where it's possible, not to the point where it's easy. You shouldn't be able to just cut a corner with the mildest of excuses and immediately launch an attack from about 2 metre behind, having lost nothing and only gained from the position you would have been had you even attempted to do what your competitor did.

Stan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> marcl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No mater what people say France kimi should
> have
> > been flagged to have that part removed.
> >
> > Monaco kimi should have got a penalty.
> >
> > Then the pit stop ferrari got fined so rule
> must
> > have been broken, so where is the penalty?
> >
> > Thats why people are anoyed.
> the rule was broken that’s why they got fined,
> teams later complained so FIA made stricter rules
> after a meeting with the teams, Bruno Senna was
> first victim of that
>
> Penalty for what? For spinning on a damp track?
> Come on, then Lewis should have been penalised in
> spa for his spin on lap 2 as well.
>
> In the past people have had parts hanging on the
> cars by a wire and were never called in like JPM
> in Canada or the Renault in Sepang a few years ago
> while some like Schumacher in Australia was called
> in
>
> [www.autosport.com]

Alonso and kimi have both done the same thing in the past, cut a corner then passed someone. Yes Kimi lost the car on a wet track but he still took someone out the race, sp by the rules that is a penalty.

Trulli says the penalty was harsh, SB also says the penalty was harsh. I dont really care what Alsono says as he is always going to have a swipe at Lewis and Mclaren but you can be if it was him he would be saying the same at them, but even alonso says the penalty was harsh.

The williams in Canada should have been called it alot of people said so at the time.

There is alot of confussion what the penalty was for anyway, some say the 1st corner some say cutting the corner. Maybe that part will be cleared up this weekend.

Reading experts views even if lewis had taken the corner he would have passed kimi into the 1st corner as the mclaren had better traction in the wet all kimi got was wheel spin, they have taken their view from the next lap how lewis came out the corner. We will never know so its all guess work. They say the lap he passed kimi he was slower over the line and still made the pass, had he taken the corner he would have been faster over the line so still would have made the pass.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2008 09:27AM by marcl.

I think you will find both Trulli and Bourdias said the penalty was harsh but Hamilton deserved it.

I dont understand why people are confused what the penalty is for. It is for both the cutting the chicane and thus carrying an advantage into turn 1.

Now Hamilton has said Kimi didnt 'have the balls to break late'. Hamilton just makes it so easy for to dislike him.

And as an aside, is Planetf1 the most biased website on the net?

---