Belgium Grand Prix 2008 ***SPOILERS***

yes, i do not think it should be reversed now. it would descend the sport and the reputation of the FIA lower through any more frivolity

---

X (@ed24f1)

I hope this gets sorted asap and does not take weeks and weeks. But I still think mclaren will have to take this on the chin as they will get told they can not appeal a drive through penalty as they are normally taken during the race.

I still agree with people the only reason he could pass kimi was due to cutting the corner but if race control said it was ok then it must be and thats why people have not got a penalty in the past.

Also if I am correct from memory teams must be informed within 1 lap that they are under investigation? this did not happen either.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2008 06:18PM by marcl.

if this gets a okay will open dangerous possibilities for future

so now let's assume some more smart knowing it gonna result in nothing just does the same thing, it will be "okay" anyways...

So better these guys take really care with what they''ll decide with this.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2008 06:14PM by Rodrigo007.

marcl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just dont see what can happen tbh.
>
> Race control told them they were ok, had they said
> no they would have let kimi pass so this is a
> problem that race control did not sort out when
> they could have. Mclaren checked and were told
> all ok carry on.
>
> Then they get a penalty they must be able to
> appeal it or its not fair really its a cock up by
> race control. I dont see how they can loose the
> appeal after being told they were ok, it should
> not have even been investigated, race control are
> the people who start the investigation.
>
> I hope this gets sorted out asap. A race result
> can be changed btw remember Bazil that year that
> was also a cock up by race control and it took a
> week I think to sort out.

i agree its going to be interesting to see the fall out from this.

Whilst race control and the stewards are different entities, if Mclaren did ask race control if it was ok, then they do appear to have a point here(whether or not its a legal point or not remains to be seen).

Whilst clearly the stewards can investigate and come to their own conclusions(as they have), it really doesn't seem right that Mclaren took the only course of action avaliable to them at the time (checking with race control),
who then tell them its ok, so they tell lewis to keep going(had there been doubt they would have told him to let kimi back past). only for the stewards to turn round a say it wasnt(when they cannot do anything about it) and punish them afterwards.

the rules as they are now allow the stewards to do this, but it really doesnt seem very fair.(even if they are the rules)

maybe the right outcome is to overturn the stewards decision(on the basis of race controls mistake), followed by a re-clarification of the rules regarding these types of incident along with the roles of race control + stewards concering judgment on them. to prevent any future confusion.

Given that this sort of thing is likely to happen again, there must be a way for teams to ask for a clear yes or no answer from someone(who ever it may be) straight away(ie when they are able to do something about it). Once they've made a decision then thats final, and then we don't end up with this mess afterwards.

Maybe Jackie Stewarts' call for a set of professional stewards is the way forward?

I can see the case both for and against lewis on this, honestly dont know which way this ones going to go.

its just a shame its ended like this as it was the one of the most exciting race finishes in years.


Did anyone on here go to Spa btw? 2nd time i've made the effort, had a great weekend.

From what I understand though race control are the people that ask for these things to be looked at by the race stewards? I am not sure if i am right i just think its been spoken about before.

As you said if ferrari did not ask, if race control did not ask then who did ask them to look into it?

If race control can not say if something is write or wrong then they should say "we dont know" to be safe maybe lewis would have let kimi pass again. To say "your ok" is saying just that so its very misleading.

Then again Charlie was the one who said mclarens 2nd brake pedal was legal only for it not to be.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2008 06:26PM by marcl.

Charlie said initially he thought it was okay.(this is what selective memory of some wanna remember) BUT then he continued saying he was not a steward to judge it.

anyways this was the whole story after the race, not sure if they talked to other person btw.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2008 06:32PM by Rodrigo007.

Yes I remember that Ron said it after the race. The ITV guy said is Charlie ever wrong Ron did not answer.

Mclaren will not win I just looked it up. Race Control are just that they do not make desisions on penalties therefore mclaren do not have a leg to stand on.

Race Control make sure the cars are legal, they run the race ie. start, flags, saftey car.

They also inform the teams if a penalty is given during the race and notify us the veiwers.

Teams can not speak to race stewards during the race, maybe race control should have checked before giving mclaren the ok.

So I would just take it as Lewis finished 3rd with a penalty that will not be over truned, race control might think it was ok but the stewards do not and they have the final say in the matter. All the evidence has been heard already after Spa and that was the conclusion and the penalty awarded nothing has changed since then.

Lewis did gain an advantage as his car was closer to kimi than it would have been had he not cut the corner.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2008 06:46PM by marcl.

marcl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> If race control can not say if something is write
> or wrong then they should say "we dont know" to be
> safe maybe lewis would have let kimi pass again.
> To say "your ok" is saying just that so its very
> misleading.
>
>
100% agree.

when mclaren asked race control for clarification, race control should have said that they could not answer that question as it is not an issue for them, it would be a matter for the stewards after the race. therefore it was up to mclaren to decide if they should or shouldnt do something about it before the finish.

The one word they shouldn't have used was 'yes' to answer a question that it appears they didn't have the authority to answer(ok you could argue that mclaren should have known this).

but this is what has caused the confusion that has produced the present situation.(had they not said it Lewis may have been told to let kimi past for a 2nd time and we wouldn't be in this situation)

i know the stewards have access to a pile of data none of us are privy too and they've come to their decision base on this and thats fair enough you can do that after the race, but for this type of incident, you surely need an on the spot decision when it can still be rectified on the track?

and to have an on the spot decision the teams need to know that once that decision has been made theres no come back from it.

whether or not the result stands is up in the air at the moment, but i expect we'll see some system changes in the decision making processes of the officials as a result of this.

McLaren has lodged an appeal officially.
From F1-Live.com

-------------------------
McLaren lodges appeal with FIA - Team seeking reinstatement of Belgian GP results

A decision of the stewards following the Belgian Grand Prix saw 25 seconds added to Lewis Hamilton's overall race time, the result of which saw him drop down from victory to third place. The win therefore went to second-placed Ferrari driver Felipe Massa.

The stewards considered that Hamilton had not properly allowed Kimi Raikkonen to regain his position after the McLaren driver temporarily overtook Raikkonen's Ferrari while taking avoiding action at the Bus Stop chicane.

McLaren had soon informed the FIA that it would appeal the decision, and has now confirmed the procedure with the following statement:

Martin Whitmarsh said:
"Following our decision to register our intention to appeal the penalty handed out to Lewis Hamilton by the FIA Stewards at the 2008 Belgian Grand Prix, we hereby confirm that we have now lodged notice of appeal. Lewis describes the incident as follows."

Lewis Hamilton said:
"In the closing stages of the race I was catching Kimi consistently, lap by lap, and with three laps remaining I got close enough to attempt to overtake him on the entry to the last chicane. I managed to get slightly ahead of him in the braking area for the first apex of the chicane. He fought back approaching the second apex - but, in doing so, he left no room for me on the inside line. The only way for me to avoid a collision was therefore to cut inside the second apex.

"

"I came out of the second apex in front of Kimi and so I momentarily lifted-off on the straight, to ensure that Kimi got back in front. The team also came on the radio and instructed me to allow Kimi to repass, which I had already done. As a result, Kimi crossed the start/finish line ahead of me and 6.7km/h quicker than me."

"After allowing Kimi to completely repass, I crossed from the left side of the track to the right side of the track, passing behind Kimi in the process. I then attacked Kimi on the inside of the first corner, and successfully outbraked him."

Martin Whitmarsh added:
"From the pit wall, we then asked Race Control to confirm that they were comfortable that Lewis had allowed Kimi to repass, and they confirmed twice that they believed that the position had been given back in a manner that was 'okay'."

"If Race Control had instead expressed any concern regarding Lewis's actions at that time, we would have instructed Lewis to allow Kimi to repass for a second time."

Statement ends
----------------------------

lol @ lewis' signature :P


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it

it looks like it was signed by Martin Withmarsh not Lewis lol

---

hei and now what will be about the trophys , will they change whole podium ones by the current places?

:D

"just as planned"

gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [www.thisisgav.co.uk]
>
> :D

---

I think that illustrates why Hamilton had to go over the tarmac and not try and cut over the raised curbs.

_______________________________________________________________________

[www.mtv3.fi]

Ferrari Kimi Räikkönen agrees with the stewards that the McLaren-driver Lewis Hamilton benefited from cutting the shikane in the F1 Belgian GP.

- If he had come to the corner in way one ought to do, he would not have been in the first corner in such a postion that he would have been able even to try to pass. Everyone has their own point of view. Had there been a wall, he would never have come through there, said Räikkönen of the situation to MTV3.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2008 02:18AM by Rodrigo007.

With Mclarens record at the FIA tribunal I wouldn't be surprised if they DO revise the decision....


..and throw Lewis out of the points completely!

Rodrigo007 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [www.mtv3.fi]
> ot/f1/2008/09/707032
>
> Ferrari Kimi Räikkönen agrees with the stewards
> that the McLaren-driver Lewis Hamilton benefited
> from cutting the shikane in the F1 Belgian GP.
>
> - If he had come to the corner in way one ought to
> do, he would not have been in the first corner in
> such a postion that he would have been able even
> to try to pass. Everyone has their own point of
> view. Had there been a wall, he would never have
> come through there, said Räikkönen of the
> situation to MTV3.


He's hardly going to say that Lewis was completely innocent will he?

There is no chnce of Mclaren's appeal being successful, regardless of legitimacy.