Belgium Grand Prix 2008 ***SPOILERS***

Alonso and Rubens also agree he got an advantage by that

but well i guess ppl will think how ironic is that :P

From what I read alonso just said the stewards are always fair, even if the drivers dont always think so. I thought he was being funny about it due to what happened to him in the past like at Italy and Hungry.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2008 04:00PM by marcl.

It doesnt have anything to do with the discussion but I want to raise a point about the FIA double standards when giving a punishement to a driver.

I think that FIAs double standards when giving a penalty isnt from todays F1. Some older members might remember the 1989 Japanese GP chicane incident, Prost shut the door on Senna and they were out, but Senna kept his engine running, got a push by the marshalls and despite of cutting the chicane he still had to drive through the tyre barriers to do so. He didnt even gained any advantage yet Ballestre disqualified him for cutting the chicane. As for the push being the DQ reason, remember that Lewis also kept his engine running and got craned back at Nurburgring yet he wasnt DQ'ed.

And for the chicane cut, what would Ayrton do, drive backwards and hit someone who is coming from 300kph to brake exactly where he was going to rejoin? The 1990 drivers briefing video @ youtube shows Piquet clearly raising that point and everyone agreed. Which obviously left Senna upset because no one said that in 1989.

And back to 2008, I can't see anything wrong in Lewis Bus Stop move, Kimi didnt left him space, he would have to run over the curb there - i heard it was made of concrete? - so he decided to take an evasive action but unfortunately it had to be through a run off area. Then he followed the rule to the letter - gave Kimi the position back, and he really was fully ahead, the problem was that the main straight was short and that Kimi darted like an idiot before La Source.

Then Rosberg, the guy clearly needs to be punished, not for spinning but yes because he decided to rejoin the track in the middle of a battle for 1st, putting in danger both drivers - Kimi almost rear-ended him at full throttle, for god's sake! Nico should have checked the side of the track before jumping back, at least his team could have advised him through the radio!

Kimi who was struggling with his prime tyres in a damp track also spun while Lewis was having an off-road adventure, the Iceman once again meets a slow Rosberg once again almost rear-ending him. He then takes evasive action into a slippery run off - He was over an astroturf too so it seems that he was unbalanced because of the move and lost it. IMO it was Rosberg who decided the race not FIA stewards.

My views are all from an onboard capture of Kimi's car during the whole final laps, When I saw what Rosberg was doing and how Kimi reacted to it, i was like OMFG! I'd be pissed @ Rosberg for that!

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...yer because rosberg actually decides who gets penalised, **slaps head** he had so little to do with it, it's unreal. If the chicane was gravel hamilton wouldn't have cut it and would had yeild to kimi, which was fair as lewis never got ahead.

The 1989 Japanese GP is nearly 20 years ago. You can't compare a recent incident to that. Rules have changed since then.

Btw senna did not keep his engine running he needed a push start

And it does look like the penalty was given for the short cut not the move into the 1st corner! Its hard to understand what he means though tbh.

[www.autosport.com]

"There was no conspiracy against anybody, McLaren included," Thathi, who comes from Kenya, told news agency Reuters. "We acted professionally and within the FIA rules. Hamilton took a short cut inside of the corner while off the track."

He added: "We had a choice to mete out a time penalty or 10 grid places in the next grand prix race. We opted for the former and handed a time penalty of 25 seconds."

A few people on other sites also feel Alonso, Kimi, RB and JB should get a penalty for using the run off on the 1st lap when they could not get round the 1st corner. Alonso was able to pass 2 cars as were the Hondas, kimi was able to get a run on Massa had a wall or gravel been there like it used to be they would all be out the race. So people using the gravel thing for the chicane bare that in mind as well. 3 years ago kimi would have been out on the 1st lap, or hang on he could have backed off and used the normal racing line



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2008 04:53PM by marcl.

Bruninho Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And back to 2008, I can't see anything wrong in
> Lewis Bus Stop move, Kimi didnt left him space, he
> would have to run over the curb there - i heard it
> was made of concrete? - so he decided to take an
> evasive action but unfortunately it had to be
> through a run off area. Then he followed the rule
> to the letter - gave Kimi the position back, and
> he really was fully ahead, the problem was that
> the main straight was short and that Kimi darted
> like an idiot before La Source.

I dont agree, you cannot prepare a self-service move like that. Every other driver would do the same to overtake, cutting the chicane and preparing a good pass for the next corner.


> Kimi who was struggling with his prime tyres in a
> damp track also spun while Lewis was having an
> off-road adventure, the Iceman once again meets a
> slow Rosberg once again almost rear-ending him. He
> then takes evasive action into a slippery run off
> - He was over an astroturf too so it seems that he
> was unbalanced because of the move and lost it.
> IMO it was Rosberg who decided the race not FIA
> stewards.

I think Kimi pressed the wrong button, you can clearly see that when he presses it he loses the car. The astroturf had nothing to do with that.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2008 04:55PM by requenov.

marcl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> A few people on other sites also feel Alonso,
> Kimi, RB and JB should get a penalty for using the
> run off on the 1st lap when they could not get
> round the 1st corner. Alonso was able to pass 2
> cars as were the Hondas, kimi was able to get a
> run on Massa had a wall or gravel been there like
> it used to be they would all be out the race.


Run offs and chicanes are two different things though. You'll also find many drivers using run offs at the start of a GP, Lewis used the run off at the start last year didn't he?

yes he did as I said its what other people are saying now, the thing was though lewis did not pass anyone but it did leave him able to get a run on Alonso, and alonso banged him off there.

The run offs at Spa on that corner are needed to avoid what happened in 1998.

Some drivers this year did not even attempt that tight 1st corner when you see the replay of it. I think they over look them things anyway as the start of a race is always about getting all the cars round and it was wet.

As I said before I do think Lewis should have got the penalty for the 1st corner pass, but it now appears he did not get the penalty for that pass. I dont know tbh there are so many different things being said.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2008 05:09PM by marcl.

it seems Mclaren will not going to appeal anymore, only dedicate to Monza

They could not appeal for reasons already given had it been a grid drop they could have appealed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2008 05:09PM by marcl.

In the first picture, at the start finish line Kimi is in front. And in the second picture, at the start line Kimi is more in front. And after than theri spped is similar til braking. So Lewis couldn't have carried the momentum gained by chicane. And as said before, if Kimi had taken a more defensive line, Lewis wouldn't be able to pass. He only attacks inside when Kimi gets in front of him. If he hadn't Lewis would have brake outside.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2008 05:19PM by watercolours.

Kimi will just say he did not need to defend as lewis should not have passed.

What they are saying is lewis car should not have been there it should have been behind, so he gained an advanatge by being alongside then close behind. Thats where the problem is he should not have been close enough to out brake kimi. The more picture you look at and more video just backs the penalty up more and more tbh.

Lauda is the one going mad about it, he also says lewis did not pick up the slipstream and he made a good pass on kimi who was all over the place.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2008 05:22PM by marcl.

Ups! i think Whitmarsh guy just confirmed they gonna appeal now!

Yep mclaren were told twice by the FIA that they were ok or they would have given the place back again!

[www.autosport.com]

God knows what will happen now but yet again the FIA have gone againt the FIA lol.

Lewis did not get the penalty for the 1st corner he got it for the chicane where he gave the place back. Seeing as most people agree he gave the place back there can be no argument the penalty is unfair. It had nothing at all to do with the 1st corner pass on kimi.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2008 05:28PM by marcl.

just a question if they lost it means a bigger penalty?


btw the guys are comentating they're going to meet to check if they have yet the right to appeal, otherwise they would just meet to say they dont have and then back to business

So, as far as I understand Race Control has clarified the team twice that the move is OK. If they had threw out any piece of suspicion McLaren would have made Lewis let Kimi pass again. And if a team cannot trust a Race Control, then whom they will trust. Additionally, if Race Control have seen nothing wrong and Ferrari has not officially applied for th ematter, then why did the stewards investigate the move?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2008 05:42PM by watercolours.

I just dont see what can happen tbh.

Race control told them they were ok, had they said no they would have let kimi pass so this is a problem that race control did not sort out when they could have. Mclaren checked and were told all ok carry on.

Then they get a penalty they must be able to appeal it or its not fair really its a cock up by race control. I dont see how they can loose the appeal after being told they were ok, it should not have even been investigated, race control are the people who start the investigation.

I hope this gets sorted out asap. A race result can be changed btw remember Bazil that year that was also a cock up by race control and it took a week I think to sort out.

Also sepang 1999 ferrari were excluded from the results as there cars were illegal all the results were changed but they were then given their results back.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2008 05:48PM by marcl.

watercolours Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, as far as I understand Race Control has
> clarified the team twice that the move is OK. If
> they had threw out any piece of suspicion McLaren
> would have made Lewis let Kimi pass again. And if
> a team cannot trust a Race Control, then whom they
> will trust. Additionally, if Race Control have
> seen nothing wrong and Ferrari has not officially
> applied for th ematter, then why did the stewards
> investigate the move?


+1

Sim

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All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!

"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole

It will be very interesting to see what happens.

I dont see how they can not give the original results back. But then again it could be like in football when a penalty is given when it should not have been or a goal, tough luck.

But unlike a drive through in a race this error can be fixed, had it been taken in the race there would have been no going back. I asume it can be fixed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2008 05:56PM by marcl.