Belgium Grand Prix 2008 ***SPOILERS***

marcl Wrote:
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> As I said though the track was wet had lewis broke
> hard he could have easily locked a brake and hit
> kimi

Are you saying that the driver in front is only allowed to brake when the driver behind starts? :\

Or are you talking about the chicane, in which case, he'd have struggled to have hit Kimi as he was pointing away from him. He didn't even need to brake - just back off the throttle for a moment.

marcl Wrote:
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> Lewis also said has he gone across that high curb
> he have spun and hit kimi anyway. Its ok saying
> things after the event the drivers have to make
> choices in split seconds.

It's not a high kerb. The high kerb is on the apex, and then only if you go over the actual kerb.

marcl Wrote:
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marcl Wrote:
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> As people said why was Trulli not investigated for
> his recovery spin infront of a williams?

Why was Hamilton not penalised for his recovery spin around Massa, Alonso and Heidfeld?

Trulli wasn't at all bright though. Can't say I've seen a driver penalised for doing it, but then I can't recall many instances of drivers actually doing it in the first place - they normally wait for the field to go through.

marcl Wrote:
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> Any way its done but I still dont think 25 sec
> penalty is correct at all, btw a drive through in
> spa is not 25 sec's kovy done his in 20 so lewis
> would have got 2nd

It's a fixed penalty and is the same one for each track. Whether the penalty can be adjusted on appeal or not I've no idea.

Gav in the pre race show Brundle did show a really high bit of concreate on that corner.

As I said though what we must remember is that we see pictures after the race, these things happened in split 2nds.

I was talking about in the chicane, yes he could have backed off but at that point kimi was still moving over on him, only after lewis had turned left did kimi stop moving over and then take the proper line. Lewis would have been better staying put and just wheel bang with kimi.

The trulli recovery was just silly lewis car was sitting at a blind spot of the track with a massive run off area to the left I think he was safer to recover than just sit there.

At the end of the day he made his choice now he will have to live with it, the spin on the 2nd lap put him in that position anyway but at least he did try and race even though he did not really need to.

Its a fixed penalty and can not be changed they worked it out on an average.

I persoanlly think he should have just been given a 5 place grid penalty at the next race, Glock got a 25 sec penalty for passing under yellow which is more dangerous and risky to people than cutting a corner and giving the place back then passing again.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2008 01:58PM by marcl.

Like I said - he was only seeing blood through his visor..too hot-headed.

marcl Wrote:
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> Gav in the pre race show Brundle did show a really
> high bit of concreate on that corner.

Yes, on the apex. The green bit. The bit he'd not have run over unless he tried to go around the outside of Kimi into 19 (so the inside of 20).

have a look at planet-f1.com what a bunch of biased british losers, certainly not a website that looks at things from 2 point of views, and its a shame as so many people visit that site.
and they claim kimis championship campaign is over, little do they remember he was 17 points behind hamilton with 2 races to go last year and we remember what happened there...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2008 02:24PM by dkpioe.

Ok cheers I thought it was on the inside of the coner he cut.

When I saw the whole thing during the race I could see why he cut it as I thought they were going to crash but when you see the replays you then think why did you go left when you did. As I said its very easy to say that after.

If only he did not pass into the 1st corner.

I still think he had every right to but there you go he will know for next time. He learnt after France you must give the place back and now he had learnt you must give the place back and not pass straight away.

People really need to stop listening to Charlie.

And at last Ferrari are finally having their engines checked by the FIA now they have one that completed 2 races.

Lets see if this rumoured 30 extra horse power gain is legal We all know they made fia approved changes at the start of the year.

[www.autosport.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2008 02:29PM by marcl.

There were 'rumours' that Ferrari had gained over the winter too, yet were deemed legal then.

I doubt they'd be so blatantly stupid so as to illegally develop the engine outside of the regulations.

Perhaps they've taken advantage of the situation more than others, but if they can, then why not? You eek everything out of everything now.

To be fair though, if they have had an unfair power advantage, they've lost more through engine failures this year. They've had 4 in races alone - 2 for each car. That's not me saying that they should get away with any offence though, just to clarify, just that any advantage, legal or not, has been rendered useless and has cost them more than it would have gained.

Little doubt that they've made improvements beyond what most other teams have though. It's the engine to have at the moment (providing those conrods have been sorted).

Yeah all the changes made were FIA approved but you could see even the BMW could not get passed the STR on the straights.

The rules were you could make changes for reliability but not ones that will give you any more performance. But changes for reliability could improve performance it was always a grey area.

This though will put minds at ease after comments Flavio made.

I hope they find nothing wrong tbh it would get to confussing for all the results to be changed again.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2008 02:51PM by marcl.

As far as I know engine changes allowed only to increase the engine reliability. And it's interesting that after so-called reliability increasing changes, this year's engine became more powerful but less reliable than last year's engine

Idk how this has got on to engines but anyway!

If an engine has no specific problem I dont think they should have been allowed to make ANY changes whatsoever. But they have and Mercedes and Ferrari have gained the most. Honda, Renault and Toyota have probably lost the most. Though yet again we've not really seen Honda's true engine performance. We knew the RA107 was a parachute, and this car seems to be all about downforce. All we have as a guidline is the RA106 which wasnt too shabby in a straightline. Certainly not as bad as 07 and 08 cars.

Anyway...

When it was decided the race stewards would be different at every race I loved the idea because imo it would stop what I thought was unfair treatmeant to JPM for racing and MS for being not being able to see .

Now I realize what a silly thing that was to do. One race it seems a rule exists for an incident, the next race though it seems there is no such a rule. Perfect examples are the pit exit issues at Germany and Valencia.

I say Piquets a joke, but the governing body of the most popular worldwide motorsport really is a joke.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

f an engine has no specific problem I dont think they should have been allowed to make ANY changes whatsoever.

Yeah but then teams would make up "problems" and build higher performance parts into the "fixes".

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
theRacingLine.net
SportsCarArchives.com

Chet I was trying to change the subject as the same things were being said over and over again.

I Loved this lol

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2008 03:07PM by marcl.

That's brilliant. :D

DaveEllis Wrote:
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> f an engine has no specific problem I dont think
> they should have been allowed to make ANY changes
> whatsoever.
>
> Yeah but then teams would make up "problems" and
> build higher performance parts into the "fixes".


Well they gave the engine spec to the FIA, they made sure all was reliable.

The FIA SHOULD ( but we all know what they're like ) turn around and say, you've changed nothing on your engine why is it failing?

If there was any problems the FIA themsevles should take the engine straight from the car and directly compare every 1/1000 of mm to the engine spec they have originally got. If something is different they should demand a full explantion of why. And if they say reliability they should demand proof.

The point of the engine freeze was to save money, which it has but to also keep the field quite close, which it is, just engine performance differencs have increased alot more.

Then again we could all be looking way too much into the engine. With the engine devo frozen the attention turned to the cars and drag reduction, well efficiency. This became probably the highest priority. It could just be the F2008 and F2006 produce xxxxxN of downforce at 200km/h, but the F2008 produces xxxN less drag. This is likley to the case, but I still think there is more going on with the engines than people are letting on.

edit - marcl, lol love it!

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2008 03:22PM by chet.

It could be many things though that cause engine problems not just the engine, ferrari are having to run extra cooling to help the engine that sounds like an areo problem.

You could get more straight line speed by running less wing etc.

The only way to really tell is getting the engine that was handed in plus the one taken after the race (which is damaged and was run at lower revs) and compair them on a rig.

Fuel can also improve engine performance as well as can a gear box.

Mclaren have now lodged the appeal but it wont be heard until around Japan.

Other people on other sites are also saying kimi should be given a penalty for running off the track and gaining time on lewis when they got caught up in the Williams mess, kimi was able to close the gap by getting an advantage by going off the track and carrying on unlike lewis who rejoined the track asap at that corner.

I just wish they could get the hearing out the way asap I hate all this stuff. The 2 hours wait after the race was more tense than the race lol.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2008 03:47PM by marcl.

It was a batch of engines that had a problem wasn't it?

I don't think that means that Ferrari have changed anything, just that they got a dodgy batch made up.

I do find it rather strange that the FIA announce who's engine they check a few days before they check it, would have thought a surprise check is more likely to discover something illegal if a team tries something like that.

Thats why they always take the engine after the 2nd race.

chet Wrote:
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> The FIA SHOULD ( but we all know what they're like
> ) turn around and say, you've changed nothing on
> your engine why is it failing?

You are allowed to change some parts of the engine, and not just for reliability purposes. No major components, but they're laid out in the Sporting Regulations (Appendix 6 if you fancy reading it).

This has come up again. MS cut a corner to keep Pedro behind no penalty was given to MS. Then what happened after was just plain dirty. So you can get away with that but not what Lewis did seems really fair, not!





I finally just saw the Senna pit stop from Spa, and that is the point i was making about spain, had ferrari not had that end pit box thats what would have happened. With massa there was no one standing there but it was an unsafe release from the pits. Did Senna hit anyone no so why did he get a penalty then? It is the same thing just further down the pit lane.

Also when Senna pitted the car behind him cut the same corner lewis did, the guy gained time on senna and did not have to move over after and let him pass. You can see this on the replay.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2008 04:35PM by marcl.