Belgium Grand Prix 2008 ***SPOILERS***

I dont really see what eveyones problem is.

Hamilton gained an advantage from cutting the chicane, ie he wouldnt have been able to pass Kimi into turn 1 if he had followed the correct line.

Penalty for cutting the chicane, a drive thru penalty, OR if within 5 laps of the end then 25 seconds is added to the overall race time.

Without bringing up past mistakes by the stewards (Alonso, Schumacher), Hamilton broke the rules and got the correct punishment.

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And in 2005 Alonso wouldn't be able to pass Klien in the SF straight if he hadn't cut the final chicane. And unlike Hamilton -who was able to pass in the braking zone instead of acceleration zone- Alonso have passed Klien in the acceleration part of the straight. If Hamilton's was unfair, then what is Alonso's? It's the only pass that's very similar to this one and it shows FIA's consistency is %50 -though 2 example is not enough to say so-.

I will quote myself in reply to 'watercolours':

SexySam182 Wrote:
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> I dont really see what eveyones problem is.
>
> Hamilton gained an advantage from cutting the
> chicane, ie he wouldnt have been able to pass Kimi
> into turn 1 if he had followed the correct line.
>
> Penalty for cutting the chicane, a drive thru
> penalty, OR if within 5 laps of the end then 25
> seconds is added to the overall race time.
>
> Without bringing up past mistakes by the stewards
> (Alonso, Schumacher), Hamilton broke the rules and
> got the correct punishment.

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Also worth remembering that Kimi was stupidly slow at that point - how long is anyone supposed to stay behind a car going that comparatively slowly?

As far as I can tell, cutting the corner or not, if you are 6kph slower than someone in front of you, you haven't got an advantage from the previous corner. Had Kimi not been so slow at that point, Hamilton wouldn't have had him into turn 1...



RedSam
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you can see kimi having wheelspin well after taking the chicane, something which hamilton didn't have to deal with

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X (@ed24f1)

What I dont understand is the Senna gp2 pit stop was meant to be the same as Massa in Spain but Senna got a penalty.

Pantano was meant to be the same as Kimi in Monaco, Pantano got a race ban kimi nothing.

Is it the same race stewards that do F1? what is going on.

Well so far people like Niki Lauda all say the penalty Lewis got is the worst desion ever in F1. yes kimi got wheel spin out that corner but lewis would have got his tyres dirty going off track so that sort of balances out.

Plus a car going 6kmph down the straight should not get a chance to over take into the 1st corner, as we have seen and heard kimi broke to early for that corner and left the door open so lewis was always going to pass you can bet kimi would have done the same.

Kinda OT, but i think the image of hamilton on fia.com is kinda ironic after what has happened recently
thumbs up to the fia

marcl Wrote:
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> What I dont understand is the Senna gp2 pit stop
> was meant to be the same as Massa in Spain but
> Senna got a penalty.

According to who? I still maintain that Massa's wasn't an unsafe exit.


marcl Wrote:
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> Pantano was meant to be the same as Kimi in
> Monaco, Pantano got a race ban kimi nothing.

Pantano was refused entry to the 2nd race for both that and passing under the safety car (which I'm sure was the bigger of the 2 misdemeanours).

I did argue at the time that Kimi should have had a penalty for Monaco though, so I'm not going to argue against you on that one. It's 1 of the 2 dubious decisions this year which have gone in Ferrari's favour in my opinion (the other being the exhaust).


marcl Wrote:
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> Plus a car going 6kmph down the straight should
> not get a chance to over take into the 1st corner,
> as we have seen and heard kimi broke to early for
> that corner and left the door open so lewis was
> always going to pass you can bet kimi would have
> done the same.

Watch the onboard. Hamilton was no more than half a car length behind Kimi before either braked, however much slower he was over the S/F line. He had every intention of attacking Kimi into turn 1 from the moment he rejoined the track.

Covfan Wrote:
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> wonder what treats the FIA have up their sleeve
> for next weekend.


10 place grid penalty for Lewis for being on the same track as Massa.

Massa understeered at parabolica and it was Lewis's fault because he was on the same track.

On this penalty, I think we'll have to accept it, thoguh waht I cant accept is Massa winning a race he never had an impact on. The penalty should fit the crime ( if there ever was one ).

Lewis and Kimi both drove their balls of that race, whether Kimi or Lewis won everyone knew it was hard fought. Then they go and had the win to Massa.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

What I read on f1-live and autosport, they were saying he took someone out by loosing control in a braking zone. I have not seen it going on what I read.

Senna and many others are saying the pit exit was the same as what massa did, again not seen it but am trying to find the video.

He probably did think he would pass asap as I said anyone would have done the same, but had kimi braked at the normal braking point lewis would not have got passed I think you need to take into account as well.

Gav I am not saying you are wrong btw I just think there is more to it than lewis getting a run at him. He broke so early for the 1st corner it was silly plus lewis backed off kimi just seemed to wonder what was going on. The kimi moved in front of him why? he sould have just stayed to the inside. Lewis messed up yes kimi was no saint in that either plus there was no need for the nudge and a risk of wrecking the tyre. As I said it was like "if i can not win neither will you"

There is also no rule saying Lewis had to drop a car length back after letting kimi pass.

Does not matter now anyway, the result can not be changed roll on Monza and it will be interesting to see what happens there with the corners.

And to the people complaing that Raikkonen should have got a penalty for passing Hamilton and Rosberg under yellows, well Hamilton also passsed Rosberg under yellows, and it would be hard to give a time penalty to a car that retired 3 corners later.

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Yes, it doesn't worth passing anymore as stated in F1-Live's Opinion News. Such things discourage pilots making an attempt to pass others. Why should risk 8 points to get 2 more? By this decision, FIA says that "Do not pass".

marcl Wrote:
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> Senna and many others are saying the pit exit was
> the same as what massa did, again not seen it but
> am trying to find the video.

Well Senna was halfway down the pit-lane and missed another teams mechanics by probably a foot or less. In Massa's case the only person nearby was Sutil (and probably someone in the safety/medical car). Certainly no one exposed though.


marcl Wrote:
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> He broke so early for the 1st corner it was
> silly

He didn't brake that early. Hamilton was so little behind and yet by the apex they were touching or nearly touching. He was probably a little tentative, and why shouldn't he be? Wet tarmac, dry tyres and ever changing and decreasing grip levels.

but it is really a lose-lose situation for them. if they give a 10 place penalty, then people will complain that there is no consistency, as this has been the penalty given out in the past, not only in magny-cours with lewis himself

and to those (in the media as well as here) who bring up hungary 2006, MS retired from the race! how do you give him a drive through penalty when he retired from the race?

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X (@ed24f1)

watercolours Wrote:
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> Yes, it doesn't worth passing anymore as stated in
> F1-Live's Opinion News. Such things discourage
> pilots making an attempt to pass others. Why
> should risk 8 points to get 2 more? By this
> decision, FIA says that "Do not pass".

The FIA are saying don't be a douche and cut the course if you can get away without doing so, but if you do have to, make sure you don't profit from it.

We saw lots of great moves yesterday, both in F1 and GP2, which didn't need investigating or were even dubious.

Hamilton didn't need to cut the course. He could have braked and just tucked in behind Raikkonen. Even if he was unable to do that, he had the option to run wide and rejoin metres later. He chose the easy option, to just miss the corner altogether. He didn't need to. The majority of people running wide at that place did so. He didn't.

That he then compounded the issue by taking that opportunity to tuck into Raikkonen's slipstream and then make a move into the following corner was simply ego or hot-headiness.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2008 01:12PM by gav.

As I said though the track was wet had lewis broke hard he could have easily locked a brake and hit kimi we dont know how wet the track was there. Lewis also said has he gone across that high curb he have spun and hit kimi anyway. Its ok saying things after the event the drivers have to make choices in split seconds.

Lewis also did not tuck into the slip stream kimi moved in front and gave lewis the slip stream but he was not there long enough to pick this up.

As people said why was Trulli not investigated for his recovery spin infront of a williams?

Any way its done but I still dont think 25 sec penalty is correct at all, btw a drive through in spa is not 25 sec's kovy done his in 20 so lewis would have got 2nd



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2008 01:38PM by marcl.

If he'd followed him into la sourse hed have still overtaken him and won, he's just way too hot headed in wheel to wheel combat.

Plus I dont know what those pictures are trying to prove but Lewis isn't in the lead in any of them. Racing isn't cutting chicanes.

Lewis is just too hot-headed; he would easily have passed Kimi later on, but just chose the easiest route: by skipping the chicane and therefore maintaining momentum to the first corner..

He really needs to control his instinct or will do what he did towards the end of last season.

Kimi really has nothing to lose now, best to just support Massa as it's highly unlikely that the Mclaren or Lewis will be slow or unreliable in these last few races.

Lewis did out brake kimi btw, if anything kimi went in to fast and that is why there was not enough racing room. By right lewis actually should have had the inside to the 2nd part of the busop but kimi moved over on him.

But I agree by picture 4 Lewis should have dropped back and left it to the next straight.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2008 01:44PM by marcl.

Obviusly kimi was trying to defend his position and was rightfully on the inside of the first chicane, he just slid over the other side - maybe due to lower adhesion; anyway, lewis had the option to slow down some more and tuck in behind Kimi and take him after Eau Rouge, but instead chose the rather easy chicane cutoff.