F1 European Grand Prix: Valencia 2008

surely the answer to kimis probs is to fuel him light, get him on pole and that would at least give him a chance to streak away at the start and build a gap.

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Can I just say 1 think you are all going on about this but Canada was the same with kimi yet no one agreed with me. We was released along side kubica and at the end of the pit lane (had it been open) would have had the same problem as massa.

The fact that a fine was given out means a rule was broken, and even though a rule was broken no penalty was given out. Had Massa not been in the championship battle I think one would have been given and had it been at the start of the year I also think there would have been one.

As I said whats done is done just hope they do the same from now on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2008 07:19PM by marcl.

Morbid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BAR#10 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There is article 18 (Sanctions) under F1
> Sporting
> > regulations, that says the stewards may inflict
> > penalties specifically set out in these
> Sporting
> > Regulations in addition or instead of any other
> > penalties available to them under the Code.
> >
> > So that may just provide the legality for
> > different decisions, stewards dicretion is
> > mentioned in the rules as well.
>
>
> Yes it says they can change any penalty they want
> to. However, they cannot change WHO it goes to.
> And that is covered by the section I quoted. The
> penalty still goes to Massa. And changing it into
> a fine or a scolding, because it was a lapped car,
> or he is fighting for the championship is weak.

I wasn't disputing who it goes to, the severity of the penalty is much more important anyway.
And deciding for a fine, remember this is F1, sometimes it feels they make the rules as they go along.
That said, they have lots of room for manoeuvre, so while you may say it's weak, it still could be formally legal.

---

GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
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No it can't. They awarded the fine to the team. As I said, they CANNOT change WHO the penalty goes to, and they did.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

i'm in 100% agreement with Morbid on this. what would have happened if ferrari were not last in the pitlane, and a team of mechanics were tending to a car in teh next pit box?

he would of wiped them out, or had to have slowed down and dropped behind sutil.

sutil desreves some plaudits for managing to avoid an accident altogether imo

Sim

---

All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!

"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole

Actually I misread the article, I thought Massa was fined when I glanced it. Till just now. Interesting.

---

GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP

[www.formula1.com]
But now the official F1 site says that:

"It resulted in a reprimand for the Brazilian and a hefty €10,000 fine."

---

GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP

Morbid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Read my post above... The rules are clear. There
> is nothing to discuss.


Well if rules are rules why were Vettel or Alonso not punished? It was almost the same situation. In fact Alonso clearly broke the rules by crossing the line, and Vettel clearly broke the rules by being released into a potentially dangerous situation.

Sim - if Ferrari were not at the end of the pitlane and there had been another team of mechanics then Felipe would ahve had to stop, but there was no other team there.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

I enjoyed this race :D, not from a fanboy point of view it was a different type of spectacle as we had the lower end of the paddock coming into play at different times, which livened it up a little bit.

Ferrari - Have got to sort them selves out, 2 engine failures in 2 races. Great Race by Massa
BMW - Great comeback :D
Renault - Poor Fernando
Williams - Not Nakajima's fault
Red Bull - Get rid of the Renault Engine
Toyota - Great races coming from them after many years, good on you guys
STR - Double Whammy! :D :D
Honda - Good race by JB, Rubens
McLaren - Good, Consistent Work

Monza972 Wrote:
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> Red Bull - Get rid of the Renault Engine

if Red Bull get rid of their renault engine, they c ould be right up there with BMW. if, for example, they got a nice, shiny Ferrari 056, well...

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yes, although they seemed to be working fine without it a few races ago.


they are really going to struggle at monza and spa with a weak engine most likely...

---

X (@ed24f1)

chet Wrote:
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> Sim - if Ferrari were not at the end of the
> pitlane and there had been another team of
> mechanics then Felipe would ahve had to stop, but
> there was no other team there.


i know that, but thats teh reason teh rule exists

Sim

---

All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!

"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole

msater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Monza972 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Red Bull - Get rid of the Renault Engine
>
> if Red Bull get rid of their renault engine, they
> c ould be right up there with BMW. if, for
> example, they got a nice, shiny Ferrari 056,
> well...

Well during the 2006 season, they did have a ferrari engine but opted for a renault one from '07 which all in all ruined their chances of being a top team. And plus look at where STR are now with Ferrari after a year

Btw whats up with Heikki? Atleast till start of this season drivers were desiding about tactics with the team, but this year cry baby Heikki keeps whining in every race that team did choose wrong tactic, wrong tires,.. Why the hell he doesnt open his mouth and say "NO!" and tell his own opinion??

Another funny thing is people in here crying about Kimis too big fuel loads.. Kimi himself doesnt seem to mind. Seems more like he is keeping heavy car for having excuse for beeing slower than Massa in every quali session. He also doesnt seem to be able to pass any cars on track and just keeps hoping that others do mistakes.

Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?

y2cwr2005 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't suppose anyone know's what health problem
> Hamilton was talking about in the after race
> conference??


this article explains it, flu and neck spasms: Click

---

RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

IWE schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Btw whats up with Heikki? Atleast till start of
> this season drivers were desiding about tactics
> with the team, but this year cry baby Heikki keeps
> whining in every race that team did choose wrong
> tactic, wrong tires,.. Why the hell he doesnt open
> his mouth and say "NO!" and tell his own
> opinion??
>
> Another funny thing is people in here crying about
> Kimis too big fuel loads.. Kimi himself doesnt
> seem to mind. Seems more like he is keeping heavy
> car for having excuse for beeing slower than Massa
> in every quali session. He also doesnt seem to be
> able to pass any cars on track and just keeps
> hoping that others do mistakes.

eh? how many passing manoevres have you seen today? 2, coulthard on piquet, and Nakajima on Rubens I thought it was, the first one was becouse piquet made a mistake, the second one was more like a kamikaze manouvre who only went right becouse barrichello backed off. Same for hungary, passing is impossible and in hockenheim, where passing is possible he did a few manouvres, so your arguments are as silly as you are Im fine with that you dont like kimi, and i know hes doing bad, but at least give some facts which are right.

I mean how many times this year he have passed any cars wich have been on same lap or cars wich havent lost wings etc..? And compare it to other drivers.

In race he drives some fast laps wich are sometimes enought good even to get fastest lap of the race. Normally even on empty track he is slower than cars in front and this doesnt depend about tires or fuel loads.


And this word silly you can leave to this person who you see from your own mirror.

Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?

What happened to the Ferrari's Spinners?





I noticed at the end Both Ferraris didnt have them on the front wheels

on the first pitstops they mounted wheels without those windshields. perhaps to get better cooling for the brakes

IWE schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I mean how many times this year he have passed any
> cars wich have been on same lap or cars wich
> havent lost wings etc..? And compare it to other
> drivers.
>
> In race he drives some fast laps wich are
> sometimes enought good even to get fastest lap of
> the race. Normally even on empty track he is
> slower than cars in front and this doesnt depend
> about tires or fuel loads.
>
>
> And this word silly you can leave to this person
> who you see from your own mirror.


well thats not true, on an empty track he mostly is up there with the fastest drivers on track, but valencia today, he was just to slow, the fact is is that the main problem is that he was 4 laps heavier then massa in qualifying, watching the gp2 race and youll know valencia needs quit much fuel per lap, so 4 laps is about the gap to massa in qualifying, the first thought is why the hell get 4 more laps of fuel then? Is it just me or are the strategists at ferrari stupid?