F1 European Grand Prix: Valencia 2008

Don't suppose anyone know's what health problem Hamilton was talking about in the after race conference??

i think ferrari may get fined for massa´s 2nd stop, an investigation after the race points towards that. if the wanted to impose a penalty on massa they could have done that during the race.

y2cwr2005 Wrote:
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> Don't suppose anyone know's what health problem
> Hamilton was talking about in the after race
> conference??


Something about his head getting too large, and it was causing concern.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

chet Wrote:
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> y2cwr2005 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Don't suppose anyone know's what health problem
> > Hamilton was talking about in the after race
> > conference??
>
>
> Something about his head getting too large, and it
> was causing concern.


Lol, I thought it sounded a bit far fetched.

well i think max this will get is a fine

Massa told off and ferrari fined which is fair enough.

I think the 1st people knew about lewis being ill was in the press bit. They kept hat quiet all weekend.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2008 05:12PM by marcl.

Found the link on PF1forum
Massa fined, but keeps the victory
[www.autosport.com]

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GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP

Good! Anything more would have been big joke after famous exhaust episode. Did Kimi get any warning?

Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?

Massa fined... what a joke! The exact same thing happened yesterday in the GP2 race, and Chandook served a drive-through penalty. The rules are the same in both series and they are both sanctioned by the FIA - If the other driver is in any way impeded during their pit stop, the offending driver stands to serve a penalty. It was clear from the footage that Sutil was troubled by Massa... that's the second time he gets @#$%& over by a Ferrari and they go free. Had Sutil done that to Massa, you can be damn sure the would have seen his mechanics again the very next lap!

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

I though the race was dull. There doesn't need to be overtaking in a race to make it exciting, so long as there's tactical intrigue and some uncertainty as to what the result might be. In this race, there were none of those things. It needed some errors and failures from Ferrari to provide any interest in the closing stages.

Unfortunately, though the track layout seemed promising, it completely failed to deliver IMHO. Singapore looks gorgeous - it would be better to have Valencia at night so it wouldn't look so ugly on camera, but it doesn't work like that. No overaking opportunities, very little scenery, big enough run-offs to make it easier for the drivers. IMHO, a very poor Grand Prix circuit.

On the race though, Massa drove a blinder and fully deserves his victory. It should be interesting to see whether he can keep ahead of Kimi at Spa on merit, since Belgium has traditionally been a happy hunting ground for Raikkonen. If not, then I think it's time to start backing him for the title. I know it's not Kimi's fault that his engine blew here, but it only cost him 4 points. Massa's blow-up in Hungary cost him 10, and he's STILL 7 points clear of Kimi. Massa for the Ferrari backing!

A decent race from Vettel. Not outstanding, but he did all the work he needed to in qualifying, where he was exceptional. Toyota look good for 4th overall now, WTF is going on at Renault? :s

I'm enjoying this Championship battle, even though there's no out-and-out battle like in the Schumacher-Hakkinen years. I'm not sure who I want to win yet, but I hope it stays close.

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Morbid - how was Sutil f*cked over by Ferrari in this case? As a backmarker he should have let him go anyway!

This was by no means Massa's fault. He had been given a green light so took it, he assumes this based on his team assumptions. Which he trusts. Drivers never look in their mirrors in the pitlane, or not often because he would need to glance then react which I think would be about 0.3 of a second, as a racing driver in the lead you dont really need to lose that much time in the pitlane ( the place where time gained and lost is at his highest due to the slow speeds ). He rightly so assumed it was safe as there was no over-ride on his green light and went only to find a backmarker. Sutil who was racing no-one at the time should have backed off, what did he have to lose?

he was racing JB for track posistion but making the extra stop that JB did not need to. Sutil was fighting no-one, Massa is fighting for the championship.

had Sutil done that Massa then the lollypop would be to blame, not Sutil...

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

Well by all accounts Lewis was ill and nearly did not race at all, he has the flu and high fever. Its on autosport.

Chet it does not matter if its a back marker or not rules are rules and ferrari broke them why else would they been fined? same should have happened in Canada but best not go over that one again

Sutil has the same rights as every other driver and the same rules simple as that. He did not need to back off in the pit lane Ferarri should have waited until he passed simple as that.

But the rules are not being applied 100% again in this race. Glock blocked nick in Quali worse than Kovy did in France and got no penalty.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2008 06:38PM by marcl.

chet Wrote:
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> Morbid - how was Sutil f*cked over by Ferrari in
> this case? As a backmarker he should have let him
> go anyway!

He had to swerve towards the wall to avoid Massa. Rules are rules, and he as much entitled to pit lane safety, and support from the governing body as any other driver, when it is compromised. He didn't get that. And yes he should have let him go. But not in the pit lane... He only has to move over when he reaches the track, and then he has 3 blue flags to do so.

> This was by no means Massa's fault. He had been
> given a green light so took it, he assumes this
> based on his team assumptions. Which he trusts.

If the team makes brilliant choices, then the driver is equally rewarded. You don't take that away from the drivers either do you? So what if the team blew it? Their driver serves a penalty. That is how the sport works.

> Drivers never look in their mirrors in the
> pitlane, or not often because he would need to
> glance then react which I think would be about 0.3
> of a second, as a racing driver in the lead you
> dont really need to lose that much time in the
> pitlane ( the place where time gained and lost is
> at his highest due to the slow speeds ). He
> rightly so assumed it was safe as there was no
> over-ride on his green light and went only to find
> a backmarker.

True... the team still stands to serve a penalty, and that penalty is handed to a specific car.

> Sutil who was racing no-one at the
> time should have backed off, what did he have to
> lose?

Wrong. He had the right of way, and his safety was compromised. Pit lane safety is pit lane safety. If you go the slightest bit too fast you serve a drive-through. If you cross the white line at the exit, even by 10 cm, and there are no cars around, you serve a drive-through.

> he was racing JB for track posistion but making
> the extra stop that JB did not need to. Sutil was
> fighting no-one, Massa is fighting for the
> championship.

So what? Rules are equal for all. That is the cornerstone of every sport.

> had Sutil done that Massa then the lollypop would
> be to blame, not Sutil...

And Sutil would have been penalized.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2008 06:43PM by Morbid.

imo the decision to fine them is ok, i have to add that of course all drivers should be treated the same way. a drive through as in the gp2 race is to harsh regarding the incident.

when saying that drivers should get penalised for team errors - lh and fa should have lost all points last year because of that spy story.

n00binio Wrote:
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> lh and fa should have lost all
> points last year because of that spy story.

Yes I think they should have... the emails made it completely clear that they had knowledge of what was going on.

As far as punishing the driver for team mistakes, the rules are CRYSTAL clear in this case:

Section 23.1 of the F1 sporting code, to be found on the FIA website, version released on the 11th of July 2008

i) It is the responsibility of the competitor to release his car after a pit stop only when it is safe to do so.

Read it... HIS car, not THEIR car. The penalty goes to Massa, end of story!

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2008 07:00PM by Morbid.

There is article 18 (Sanctions) under F1 Sporting regulations, that says the stewards may inflict penalties specifically set out in these Sporting Regulations in addition or instead of any other penalties available to them under the Code.

So that may just provide the legality for different decisions, stewards dicretion is mentioned in the rules as well.

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GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP

Sutil should have thought to let him go in the pitlane, drivers have done it before and I guess Massa expected the same from Sutil...

Wrong. He had the right of way, and his safety was compromised. Pit lane safety is pit lane safety. If you go the slightest bit too fast you serve a drive-through. If you cross the white line at the exit, even by 10 cm, and there are no cars around, you serve a drive-through.

In which case, why was Vettel or Alonso not peanilized for Germany? Vettel was released into Alonso's path, there was clearly not enough room for two to exit, hense Alonso crossing the white line. That was potentially an un-safe situation too.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

Read my post above... The rules are clear. There is nothing to discuss.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

Why should sutil have let him go? he had right of way.

BAR#10 Wrote:
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> There is article 18 (Sanctions) under F1 Sporting
> regulations, that says the stewards may inflict
> penalties specifically set out in these Sporting
> Regulations in addition or instead of any other
> penalties available to them under the Code.
>
> So that may just provide the legality for
> different decisions, stewards dicretion is
> mentioned in the rules as well.


Yes it says they can change any penalty they want to. However, they cannot change WHO it goes to. And that is covered by the section I quoted. The penalty still goes to Massa. And changing it into a fine or a scolding, because it was a lapped car, or he is fighting for the championship is weak.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.