Magny Cours Grand Prix ***SPOILERS***

Bloody hell Marc, do you actually do any work at work? Do agree totally with your last post.

mikef1 Wrote:
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> Bloody hell Marc, do you actually do any work at
> work? Do agree totally with your last post.


lol :D

I think its great kimi got 8 points and hamilton 0. Its justice for montreal.
Hamiltons move was illegal, wouldnt have worked without runoff, i dont understand why he didnt just give the spot back. I read in a magazine today, that in the last race, Mclaren had definitely warned Hamilton of the Red light, but still he crashed. now i wonder if Mclaren told Hamilton to move back a spot after the overtake, and he just ignored them again.

Nick Heidfeld is getting worse and worse, i just realised Kubica has more points then last year after only 6 or 7 races, but Heidfeld is unlikely to match his last years points total.

gav Wrote:
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> Shinnbob Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What the hell. I dodge these topics now, have
> had
> > it with all the Hamilton bashing, he tried a
> pass,
> > its racing, the stewards ruled it was unfair
> and
> > he got unfairly penalised. I also saw Raikkonen
> > getting away with ruining Sutils race in
> Monaco,
> > and also saw Hamilton drive brilliantly to win
> at
> > Monaco after a mistake. Some of you need to get
> > your heads checked and remember what F1 should
> be,
> > overtaking and fair officials.
>
> He was praised so much last year, and rightly so,
> but when things swing the other way, all of a
> sudden it's "Hamilton bashing"? These last few
> races he's been awful. He's having a very poor
> year.
>
> Melboure: started the season off well and
> strongly
>
> Sepang: had no pace (though at the time we just
> thought it was an off day) and well beaten by his
> team-mate
>
> Sakhir: had no pace and crashed into another car
> (wrecking his own race and harming the other
> driver's)
>
> Barcelona: he was OK. Nothing special, and could
> have been beaten by his under-achieving team-mate
>
> Istanbul: very poor qualifying, decent race, but
> again his team-mate was the stronger driver
> Monaco: rookie mistake and only won as the weather
> and strategy lucked his way
>
> Montreal: looked quick, but another rookie
> mistake
>
> Magny-cours: 2 mistakes on his 2 qualifying laps,
> punted his own team-mate, got a penalty for
> another incident, and still had no pace
>
> Had last season been filled with rookie mistakes,
> then fair enough, but it wasn't - it was special.
> This season he's trying to do a Senna by making up
> the difference in a slower car and he just doesn't
> have the ability or mental strength to do so. Had
> he not made these cockups (and carry on how he did
> last year) he'd likely be leading the championship
> by a good 5-10 points, but instead he's 10 points
> back in a slower car with very little chance of
> finishing higher than 3rd unless Ferrari cock
> things up.

I think what's failed to be mentioned here is that Lewis is only in his second season. So frankly, two wins in your second season is no bad in any car.

thats very poor excuse...

I don't really see how. Could you elaborate?

because he achieved much more, and drove much better last year than now. instead of one step ahead he made one backwards.

Its quite clear from what mclaren said that they felt he did not have to give the place back.

There is a lot of biased rubish on this post. If your neutral you would have a hard time arguing the cause that the FIA are neutral when Ferrari or Mclaren are involved. Lewis has made a few mistakes but that is natural after what 15 or so months racing in F1, does he diserve the penalites he keeps geting well yes and no. I can understand the FIA with regards to the Pit lane accident but was under the impression you shouldn't be driving side by side like Kimi and Kubica, there would have been space tot eh side for Hamilton to have avoided the issue then. Mind you shouldn't have happened anyway. Kovy well that 5 place penalty was a joke. As for Kimi well he looked like a rookie in Australia has had a few good races but also some poor ones so overall i hope Massa takes the title if it has to be a Ferrari. The overtaking penalty Lewis sufferd yesterday was just stupid he was past and whilst he was too fast you could see the car twitch and he wasn't that far off the road. Who was it that repeatedly did that in Canada at the final corner but was fighting to hold back a car not overtaking a much slower one. The FIA punished mclaren but didn't touch Toyota a few years back or Renault last year for spying. Why? What about Alonso in Monza a few years back blatant abuse by the steards to help Ferrari. Hope we get a few lessincidents from now on. Mclaren need to be whiter than white although i would be tempted to pay kovy a bonus for every Ferrari he runs into.




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4GB DDR2 800MHz

this is what Vettel said about Hamilton:

"He cut the chicane completely," he said. "I had a similar situation at the Monaco chicane, when I was too late on the brakes. I overtook two cars but I let them go again and so the issue was settled.

"If someone stays out in front, there is a penalty. I think he should have let me past again because he had a better car and could have passed me again."

Hamilton was too arrogant to let Vettel pass again! its so obvious to do it, but he didnt and got a just punishment.

Hamilton is a nice guy, but at the same time, he has seemed to led himself into a delusion to think he is the best driver out there, thinkinghe is the next Senna, who he speaks of a lot. He has to remember he is in a great car, and has to remember Senna wasnt when he started in F1.
So far, Hamilton has got worse and worse in his Career, he started off great, and has gone worse with more errors ever since. he blew a 17 point lead over Raikonnen with 2 races left last year, and these 2 races will probably decide the outcome this year.

He deserves all the criticism he gets, only for the reason of the persona he has built up in the media, which consists of too much arrogants, well done to the British press for slating him in the last 2 races and getting into his head, he had it all coming to him for playing Mr. perfect to the media.

I wonder if he was in BMW, not Mclaren, would he be beating Kubica?
afterall Kubica was faster then Hamilton in lower series.

If Hamilton was of Senna calibre, he would definitely win this year, wouldve won last year.

to me Kubica should be getting the Senna-esqu tag.
his career so far in F1 has far more matched Sennas then Hamiltons, and hes not arrogant enough to give himself a yellow helmet, just gets the job done race after race.

You think that because he has a yellow helmet he's arrogant?....

jbnd05 Wrote:
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> I think what's failed to be mentioned here is that
> Lewis is only in his second season. So frankly,
> two wins in your second season is no bad in any
> car.

Well, I did mention it, but I'll elaborate on it. He was pushed far harder last year and got on with the job. He let his car do the talking, and if there was a suggestion he was under pressure, he never showed it (perhaps other than China). There were very few public outbursts or bigging himself up. It was a good level, and most loved him for it.

This year it's somewhat turned on its head. He's making the sort of mistakes that Piquet was earlier this year, completely overdriving and is showing in public that he's under pressure, and piling more of it on himself by saying things like "I can win from anywhere on the grid". Perhaps you can, but you've shown no signs yet of being able to.

He set the bar high with his stunning performances last year, and it was inevitable that he was going to be unable to match that this year. There's no shame in that. There is shame in making the big mistakes that he's continually making at the moment though.

Silverstone could be very interesting. Apparently he was extremely disappointed last season that he couldn't deliver something for the British fans, so apparently he's out there to entertain them. He's on a poor run littered with mistakes... how's he going to react. Is he going to choose this time to be sensible and consistent (he needs to be)? Is he going to gamble like his did last year? This year with Toyota, Renault, BMW and RBR much closer he could lose out big time if he does. Or is he going to go all gung-ho again and possibly cock his race up? For sure he won't have the outright pace to win (who's not expecting another Ferrari 1-2 if things go to plan?), so I'm going to be very interested to see which game he plays. He can't afford another costly mistake, or his championship is over in my opinion.

Well personally id like to see that ferrari 1-2 for my 1st time going to an f1 race

I think he will have the pace to dis-lodge a 1-2 Ferrari, but probably not the win. You would normally say its Massa who would be 3rd, or last of the Ferraris but he is very much on an up and it could a close fought race.

The important thing is, at Silverstone overtaking is very much possible. I dont think it helped at Magny where he started so far down on a track thats almost impossible to overtake. At least this time things should be more smoother if he does start in a bad posistion. Silverstone seems like the type of track where its easy to build up a move and be relativley patient. Magny on the other hand doesnt have many breaks in its track so you can relax and compose yourself again.

Silverstone will be especially interesting aswell because Renault are due for quite an update word has it. I think Silverstone is the deadline for Renault to prove they can give Alonso a good car too, so if what they have proves to be quick, expect the young spanaird to be in the way somewhere. Though it wont make much of a difference Honda have their long awaited rear suspension too and it will probably be the last major update of the season for them... lets hope it brings up to the midbunch. Though must be said Honda and Williams were pretty much matched lap for lap at France throughout the race and practise from what I saw. Williams looked to have dropped a little.

---

"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

I think what's failed to be mentioned here is that Lewis is only in his second season. So frankly, two wins in your second season is no bad in any car.

Does this make drivers like Villeneuve epic? First season...any car...more wins?

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Dunno, but compare 1996-97 Williams and Ferrari to 2008 McLaren and Ferrari.. Difference is bout same as beetween day and nigt.

Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?

no bad in any car.

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Hamilton messed up pure and simple ... forget other incidents he knows the rules. You over-take illegally ... back off! Give the place back ... easy. A fifty mile an our pit lane and he can't see a red light plus two enormous cars stationary in front of you. Give me a break!! He's quick! Trouble is he's too quick for his own brain. Being fast is not enough, as has been proved time and time again. Lewis thinks he's better than he is and as a result he makes stupid mistakes .... no racing brain just the raw speed. Wearing a yellow helmet does not make you Ayerton Senna sooner he realizes that better it will be for him .... there was only one Senna and he never went on about how good he was or what a legend he would be .... he just won races maybe Lewis would be better off getting rid of the helmet and reading the book ..... Massa will win this year and next year will be even tougher for Hamilton especially if Kubica gets a well deserved top drive because he is the quickest driver in F1 oh yeah, .... and he thinks before he opens his mouth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2008 08:28AM by Isaint.

I dont see anyone beating ferrari at silverstone or Germany or Spa, as I said before his next chance is Hungry.

Regarding JV it was his errors that also cost him the championship in 1996 and he made hard work of it in 1997. But in both them years williams had a car advantage, maybe not so much of one in 1997. It also took kubica a few years to get to where he is now. Problem for lewis is he was great straight away last year and people expected the same this year.

This year the mclaren is a good car but not the best, last year they were better than ferrari on some tracks but worse on others etc and lewis lost the championship with errors but had the car not switched off in Brazil (we still dont know what happened) he still would have finished where he needed to even with his going off track error.

Lewis kept saying at the end of 2007 next year is my year, he should not have said that as he has put pressure on himself and as people have said he is trying to hard in a car that simply can not do it all the time.

He was to cocky in Canada and thats why he crashed, he was not paying attention he should have been looking at the light he had loads of time to stop. About kimi being along side kubica, the rules are not clear but from what I understand yes they should have been in single file kimi should have moved into the correct lane, but anyway lewis still hit him and would have probably got a penalty for overtaking them. They were still under the safety car rules and the only way u could pass in the pits was to have a better stop you would not be allowed to swap positions coming out the pits as this would be overtaking behind the safety car and that is another reason why kimi should not have been along side kubica. Thats my understanding of it after reading rules.

bender Wrote:
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> And just to give my opinion on the now old issue
> of Kimi vs Sutil at Monaco, remember that Sutil
> shouldn't have been there in the first place - he
> passed cars under the yellow flags and should have
> been penalised or disqualified.
>
> Obviously the stewards didn't bother penalising
> Sutil becasue he was eliminated in the race
> (punishment enough) and there is really no point
> in giving a driver a 5/10 place grid penalty when
> they usually qualify 19th anyway
>
> I'm assuming the reason why Kimi wasn't penalised
> was simply because if Sutil had followed the
> rules, he would not have been in front of Kimi
> when he lost control - so most likely Kimi
> would've only taken himself out.

Kimi lost control of the car, he never regained it but after he hit Sutil, it was very different situation with Hamilton in Canada who was well aware of the red light (the team already admitted they advise him about it) and the cars in front, and i'm sure in a F1 car going 80kph, these drivers have total control on them, and in Magny Cours... you can watch the replay yourself, he took advantage by cutting the corner there's no discussion to it, i don't understand why people keep comparing Kimi's incidet and Hamilton's when they are totally different, it was just his desesperation to go to the front, and not to loose more time why he never give the position to Vettel... and about Mclaren supporting him on the penalty?, C'mon, do you guys really believe that?, did you all see what Ron Dennis said on saturday? [f1.gpupdate.net] about his qualy lap being so shitty?, what was he supposed to say?, destroy his driver who seems to be toally lost right now, and with all the media @#$%& and everything head to the home gp with even more problems?, of course he needed to back him up, but hey know for sure that his penalty was well deserved

just for the record i'm not saying Hamilton @#$%& it up big time on sunday by cutting the chicane, no, anybody can do it, in fact Kovalainen did it when the race was finishing, it was just his attitude, by never giving the position back and then complaining about the penalty

Mclaren didn't get a penalty they didn't earned, wheter the stewards where hard on them or not, it's a different story, i for one think that they lead themself to the spot light, every little thing they do is carefully monitored, but they earned that by braking the rules big time last year!

PS: Massa for the championship! :p



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2008 07:59AM by Slash.