Magny Cours Grand Prix ***SPOILERS***

But why did it take so long for ir to be under investigation? Everyone could see what had happened and all they needed to do was contact mclaren straight away to let Vettel straight back through like they have in the past. They took so long to sort out what had happened, that this became impossible, poor decision making IMO.

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no Brundle grid walk and no pole lap commentated by him

No kimi did not pass someone by loosing control and cutting a chicane he took them out the race, which is worse taking someone out or passing them? well it seems to be passing them.

Yes Gav I do agree I am seeing a different side of Lewis this year he needs to shut up and get on with it and getting penalties every other week is not going to help.

When Aonso passed Klien that time in Japan he was informed to let him back passed by the FIA, why did this not happen this time?

Why was kimi allowed to carry on in a dangerous car?

Anyway Ron could be in trouble with the FIA or his after race comments even though he did not directly say anything, and the FIA have now asked for more money from F1 teams in order to sign the agreement.

ITV are not allowed to do the interviews in France as its a different firm that do the footage its always been like that. They are also not given extra footage to show.

Anyway enough from me just a bit fed up with this penalty giving. I am not saying the penalties are not all correct but they should give the same ones to all teams drivers and not pick and choose. At the time I thought lewis should give the place back but now after reading stuff it does sound like he had made the pass and would have made the corner had there been no marbles so he did not gain anything from it and thats what people are finding hard to understand. In other races people have done worse and got nothing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2008 09:38PM by marcl.

things can be more interesting in England in the point of view of the entertainment for the race , Ferrari said there's a huge possibility that they'll need to change Kimi's engine for Silverstone

Free engine change so he wont loose out.

I think not Marc , remember both Kimi and Massa had to use free change for their engines for Malaysia

Woudnt cause penalty anyway since FIA found this famous hole from their rule.. "Engine can be changed if it will be changed for a reason."

In different words: "Engine have to last 2 races, but if its damaged it can be changed without getting penalty."

Sure FIA doesnt use this totally unlogical hole for every driver..

Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?

marcl Wrote:
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> No kimi did not pass someone by loosing control
> and cutting a chicane he took them out the race,
> which is worse taking someone out or passing them?
> well it seems to be passing them.
>
> Yes Gav I do agree I am seeing a different side of
> Lewis this year he needs to shut up and get on
> with it and getting penalties every other week is
> not going to help.
>
> When Aonso passed Klien that time in Japan he was
> informed to let him back passed by the FIA, why
> did this not happen this time?
>
> Why was kimi allowed to carry on in a dangerous
> car?



you had better comments in the past, now you look rediciolus just like lewis. in every post you bring kimi accident in monaco forward, but at that time, kimi was penalised by having to pit for a new nosecone. and lewis today should know by himself, that you aren`t allowed to pass if you cut a chicane. if lewis got free with that move today in monza every driver who is about to pass a car in front wouldnt brake for the first chicane and say that he was infront at the corner entry anyway thats why he didnt let the guy who he owertook by braking to late pass.

as gav said, lewis this year is just arogant prick who thinks the whole world is against him. his comments "give me all the penalties and i will still win" are pathetic and he deserves what he gets for his arrogant driving. who the @#$%& does he think he is, he hasnt accived nothing if he wasnt in the best car with full support of his team last year, he wouldn`t be any better then other rookies. he should focus on driving, not other things around formula one, othewise he will never be a champion. both him and his father have "grown" on lewis succes and now its getting back at them.

marcl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No kimi did not pass someone by loosing control
> and cutting a chicane he took them out the race,
> which is worse taking someone out or passing them?
> well it seems to be passing them.


> When Aonso passed Klien that time in Japan he was
> informed to let him back passed by the FIA, why
> did this not happen this time?

IIRC Fernando let Klien pass quite soon after and did not wait for the stewards to tell him to do so, the same situation has happened before with other drivers, perhaps on the teams insistence. In this situation i reckon Mclaren believed that Lewis didn't need to give the place back. It was a tough call tbh.

> Yes Gav I do agree I am seeing a different side of
> Lewis this year he needs to shut up and get on
> with it and getting penalties every other week is
> not going to help.

It's the same Lewis as last year, the difference is that this year expectations of him are much higher. He's cracking under the pressure and is in denial about it, but yet again in the race he tagged a car, his team mates this time. Perhaps his attitude will improve with age as he is still only 23 year old and at that age many young talented guys are quite cocky but he is really doing himself no favours.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2008 10:07PM by mikef1.

IWE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Woudnt cause penalty anyway since FIA found this
> famous hole from their rule.. "Engine can be
> changed if it will be changed for a reason."
>
> In different words: "Engine have to last 2 races,
> but if its damaged it can be changed without
> getting penalty."
>
> Sure FIA doesnt use this totally unlogical hole
> for every driver..

I thought that if you finish a race with an engine you use the same engine that you finished on. As ITV were rambling on about that when Button's engine blew in Oz in 2006

Rodrigo007 Wrote:
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> I think not Marc , remember both Kimi and Massa
> had to use free change for their engines for
> Malaysia


massa retired in australia at about half distance, kimi 6laps from the end. I dont think they will get any penalty because before malaysia, both cars retired from the race.

Lewis doesn't have what it takes in his current state. He cracked at Monaco and lucked out. He cracked at Montreal, and looked like a fool. He cracked at Magny Cours and got himself even deeper than he should be.

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Yup, its a free engine change kimi can get. confirmed on autosport.

DaveEllis Wrote:
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> Lewis doesn't have what it takes in his current
> state. He cracked at Monaco and lucked out. He
> cracked at Montreal, and looked like a fool. He
> cracked at Magny Cours and got himself even deeper
> than he should be.


he's been apologizing a lot on the last 2 months

anyways, about his penalty, we even had a LIVE quick class on what to do when overtaking a car in that corner, i don't know if it was Kovalainen or Alonso that where trying to overtake a car in the exact same spot and i'm pretty sure they where ahead but still backed off and let the guy on the inside regain the position, i think that was what Hamilton should've done, but we all saw how he was so desperate when trying to overtake, locking wheels, running wide, it was a complete mess, and i'm sure that was what lead him to do such a maneuver on Vettel, his desesperation to do a-Raikkonen 2005-

even if he overtook the guy, he still should've give the position back, that lame excuse about marbels and stuff just doesn't fit, he was just desperate and didn't wanted to loose more time, but he ended up loosing even more, i don't want to start a Hamilton debate here but since last year he's proven that under pressure he cracks to easily

great race from Jarno, and finally Piquet finished a race, he still made the mistake of giving the position too easy to Kovalainen at the exit of the pit, but i guess is better if he does that than putting the car out of the race and not score anything

can't wait for silverstone to see how Hamilton will deal with all of this at his home GP, and i hope Massa continues leading the championship until the end! after the bad start of the season i must say the guy's been doing very good

You are allowed to have 1 free engine change and this is what ferrari are doing for GB.

And alonso was informed in Japan to let Klien back pass I remember him saying it and that he could not understand why he had to.

And again Alonso in 2006 thought the world was against him remember Monza and again most people backed him up.

Lewis just needs to watch what he says now, the press can make him and they can break him. Saying he does not care what the press say means he does.

He needs to take a step back and remember Turkey this year and needs that form back. He is having the 2nd year blues.

Also changing your nose is not a race penalty its self inflicted. Does not matter now anyway it just seems stupid u get a penalty for what happened today and not for hitting someone and taking them out the race oh well.

No one has seen the out of car footage to see if lewis was passed or not, if the move was done before the corner then there should have been no penalty as he was passed vettel and vettel was not trying to pass him so he did not gain an advantage. It was a tough one to call but in canada we saw people doing the same and there was no problem there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2008 12:48AM by marcl.

No one has seen the out of car footage to see if lewis was passed or not, if the move was done before the corner then there should have been no penalty as he was passed vettel and vettel was not trying to pass him so he did not gain an advantage.

Urgh, you can't be serious? Have you ever watched motorsport? Do you have even the most basic concept of how driving works? Whether he had taken the position by the time the corner came or not has nothing to do with it. The fact is, there was NO chance of making the pass in the position he was in if he had braked for the chicane. Vettel would have taken it flat and kept the position.

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I have just seen the highlights and have to agree the move was not on and had there been gravel there he would not have even been in the race. So yes I take back what I said. He would probably have not even attempted the pass.

I did not look at it that way before.

As vettel said all lewis had to do was give him the place back and pass him again and as i said before he should have just done this to avoid any doubt.

I do feel though people jump on every error Lewis makes more than they have with other drivers that have made worse errors. But due to the fact he keeps talking himself up before the race is why people jump on any error he makes. Right now if Lewis would stop making his errors he would be leading by quite a bit so if he does not win it this year he only has himself to blame. Mclaren also need to take some of the blame as they are not managing him properly and not passing on the right info. They should have told him today to let vettel pass and they should have told him in canada earlier about the red light. Its done now he needs to shut up and get on with it.

Anyway I was wrong so hold my hands up to that.

And yes Brundle was really bad today as well as people have said it was probably the worse race for him since he started commentating.

Roll on silverstone



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2008 02:16AM by marcl.

I do feel though people jump on every error Lewis makes more than they have with other drivers that have made worse errors.

Lewis sits there and says he doesn't care what people say - and then says how it effects him. He sits there and says that he won't be broken by what people say - then goes out and makes constant silly mistakes.

It is now gotten to the point where he is not only being talked up by the press and fans, but he is talking himself up. If you can't walk the walk, don't talk the talk.

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Yes I agree there as I said before, he is saying the wrong things at the moment he needs to shut up and just get on with it.

I admit I do stick up for him as I do think he has the talent to be up there with the best but at the moment his head and mouth are in the wrong place.

He has now made mistakes in every gp apart from Australia, Turkey and Spain. All the mistakes he has made are ones we all expected last year not this year. We are now coming up to races that he did not go so well at last year so will be interesting to see how he copes, mclaren have to keep him out the press and he needs to watch what he is saying.

And as i said i expect thats why people jump on his errors more than other drivers due to the interviews.

marcl Wrote:
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> And as i said i expect thats why people jump on
> his errors more than other drivers due to the
> interviews.

mmm, i don't know about that marcl, i mean, we've all seen how critisized was Kimi after his error un Monaco, and Massa after his two straight erros in Australia and Malaysia, i do agree that at some point his intreviews play a part, but also does his constant errors, is not been one, it's been several, so it could look as if people are jumping on him, but it's because there's always a new one to jump almost every weekend