Malaysian F1 Grand Prix ***SPOILERS***

I can see how my friends thinks it was massa's mistake,and some of the new f1 watchers too,but how can any expirenced f1 watcher say it was a mistake,it was not,just listen to the sound of the engine,when the throttle goes wrong,you can hear it making a loud scream,that didn't happen with Massa,i have seen the vid about 6 times,the engine sound is quite normal all the way through the corner tell the spining moment,the sound just goes off.

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Morbid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Razorsedge Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > As an example, his good performance in Istanbul
> in
> > 2006 did absolutely nothing but prevent
> Schumacher
> > from getting a clean pit-stop and winning the
> > race. Did Massa deserve the win. Yes. Did it
> serve
> > any greater purpose? No. (Although the
> anti-Schu
> > brigade may feel differently about that, LOL.)
> >
> > Massa is the 'spoiler'.
>
> I would argue that in this case Massa was the very
> thing that makes F1 a sport!
>
> By the same logic you put forth, if that makes me
> part of the anti-Schu brigade, then Schumacher
> never was a sportsman, and the Schumists never
> were fans of a sport, but rather clones in a
> corporate capitalist social movement.


Hahaha! Indeed.

What i should have written in place of 'The anti-Schu brigade' was 'fans of Alonso during the 2006 campaign.' Of course the Alonso fans were not 'anti-Schumacher' in the true sense, I'm just adding my own color to what was an intense rivalry in that years title battle. I should also add I am an advocate of the No.1 driver approach to team management, it just makes good sense to me, I don't think that makes me a clone, but I like the expression 'Schumists!'

In one sense you do make a good point, although I'm going to take you slightly out of context here, about 'Massa being the very thing that makes F1 a sport'; When he flies off into the dust it provides us all a demonstration that driving these machines is not as easy as the good pilots make it look.

Cheers.

Why should the fastest driver on the day give up the win? I have never understood this. Before anyone takes the piss I know its to give the other driver more points to help them get the championship, but its not a sportsmans way of getting it. I would rather win it.

Massa got pole that day and led, MS messed up his quali lap that was his fault so its his fault he got caught in the pits not massa.

Its not all Ms fault Todt ran his sports car team the same way its just how he works.

Would Senna have wanted to win that way probably not he wanted to fight everyone even have prost as a team mate again at williams had he gone there in 1993. In order to be the best you have to beat the best and the only way you can fully do this is in the same car at the same level.

I can not help but feel MS avoided this all the way through F1 and left a year early to not have kimi as a team mate, its just my view on it thats all.

I have been watching f1 now for 20 years. My top 5 drivers that I have seen that I rate up there are.
1 senna
2 MS
3 mika
4 kimi
5 Lewis/alonso

The list will change over time but i can never see my top 2 change tbh.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2008 03:32AM by marcl.

It Was A Driver Error From Massa:

A spokesman for Ferrari has ruled out any lingering doubt that Felipe Massa's terminal Sepang spin was caused by a technical problem.

Amid rumours that his seat for 2009 may not be safe, Ferrari officials said they would check whether any aspect of the car could be blamed for what appeared to be the Brazilian's second major driving error in a one week period, leaving his points tally so far at zero.

Asked by the German magazine Sport Bild if a defect had caused Massa to spin into the gravel at Sepang, the spokesman is quoted as saying: "No. The car was okay."

Team boss Stefano Domenicali, however, is confident that the 26-year-old can put his flagging reputation back on track in Bahrain next weekend.

"We must not over-dramatise.

I'm convinced that from Felipe's and our point of view, a response won't go amiss in Bahrain," he said. "Felipe has all the qualities and the capabilities to do well."

Massa's former boss Peter Sauber, though, was not surprised when he observed the driver's error from the BMW-Sauber garage in Malaysia.

"If things are not running well for him, Felipe loses concentration quickly," the Swiss said.



[en.f1-live.com]

_______________________________________________________
W300 Career:

Season 1 Team Orange: 4 Wins (Monaco, Germany, Interlagos, Malaysia)

Season 2 Senninha/Team Shadow: 2 Wins (Bahrain, Monaco) Both With Team Shadow.

Season 3 Team Shadow: 1 Pole (Nurburgring)

Season 4 Team Shadow: Hasn't Started Yet!

Marcl, I would agree in that MS avoided a bigger challenge sometimes, I mean not once has he had a team-mate who has been wdc material. Massa and Rubens come closest, but sadly they arent.

but about Kimi, my understanding is he was forced out by Luca di montezemolo ...?

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

tbh chet we only know what we were told.

Everyone has views on it and they were mine.

Tbh though who could have been ms team mate? once mika left there was no one really. Kimi was young and learning same as alonso. There was no real top line driver other than MS.

There are more good drivers this year than for many years really

Kimi
Alonso
Lewis
Kubica
Nick
Nico
Kovy

All the above drivers are capable of winning races and championships.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2008 02:26PM by marcl.

You missed of JB

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

you could arguably put vettel in there too

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X (@ed24f1)

Not yet maybe in a year or 2 for Vettel we all know he is fast but not really seen enough of him.

As for JB I think his time has passed now. With to many good young drivers who is going to pick him?

yes, unless their respective teams improve dramatically, it looks like button and webber's time have both passed.

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X (@ed24f1)

tbh, given the chance neither driver should move anyway.
why on earth would jb want to move to Ferrari. The smile on his face atm is about as big as ive seen it! For Honda everything is on the up. The car is clearly responding well to development changes, and it is clearly very driveable and pretty quick.

For 2009 where everybody will be on the same level, whats saying Ferrari wont mess it up ? I mean, nothign being developed on the current cars will be of use for the 2009 cars. RedBull have the mighty combo of Newey and Willis, which has proven to be a very nice combo. And Honda has Ross, Jorg and Loic, who by the looks of things know what they're doing.

JB and MW dont have the raw pace of lets say Alonso or Kimi, but during a race, JB will match Kimi thats for sure.

About Vettel, its too early to tell, the car is good and he hasnt lived up to his practice form yet. If when STR get the RB4 Vettel manages to beat Webber and DC then yeah, I guess he can be listed with Kimi and Alonso, until then he is just a new boy who's shown flashes of speed.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

In the past its normally been Ferrari that took a bit longer to react to changes in regulations.

I also wonder how the budget cap and less wind tunnel work will affect them?

Yes JB might be smiling at the moment as the team are moving forward, but they should never have got in that mess before and tbh they still have a long way to go and I still think it will be 2 years before they are even regular points scores again. It was not just last year they had a bad car.

If Ferrari, mclaren and BMW get their cars to the finish it only leave 2 points up for grabs.

I still dont rate webber, if he was that good a top team would have signed him ages ago. He used to drive for Merc so they know what he is like, so when a seat was available they did not even look at him that sort of says it all.

Webber on a quali lap is stunning, but racing I still think he has a lot to show.

marcl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Would Senna have wanted to win that way probably
> not he wanted to fight everyone even have prost as
> a team mate again at williams had he gone there in
> 1993. In order to be the best you have to beat
> the best and the only way you can fully do this is
> in the same car at the same level.


and Senna never blocked Dereck Warwick's move to Lotus for '86, did he...

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

Good point yes he did but that was so early in his f1 days. I think that was a mistake but a team like Ferrari, mclaren can support 2 drivers at the same level. But I do agree with you on the Lotus thing tbh I totally forgot about that. Senna felt Lotus did not have the budget to run 2 cars at the same level, people could look at it that he was worried Dereck would beat him and tbh we will never know, I personally dont think he would have.

But later in F1 did senna avoid a team mate not that we know of.

From what I remember not once did Senna affect the way Berger was treated, or Mika. The Prost thing in 1989 I suppose you could say Senna affected things by wanting Prost dropped by the team after things he said about Honda, but prost was not dropped and mclaren still gave him the same equipment even though he signed for ferrari.

Tbh its just a different generation thing I think, F1 is no where near the same as it was back then. Back then was more about the track action and driver personalites than it is now, now its more about politics.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2008 05:38PM by marcl.

As good a driver as Derek was he would have posed no more of a challenge than De Angelis did the year before.
Senna was right, Lotus did not have the resources to fund two top drivers. When he moved to Mclaren he went up against the best at the time and subsequently never blocked a driver choice or demanded no1 status from the team from then on.

marcl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are more good drivers this year than for
> many years really
>
> Kimi
> Alonso
> Lewis
> Kubica
> Nick
> Nico
> Kovy
>
> All the above drivers are capable of winning races
> and championships.

I disagree with this statement. I think we have some emerging talent, yes, but it looks more like this ATM:

Top Drivers: Kimi Raikkonen and Fernando Alonso

Emerging: Hamilton, Kubica, Heidfeld, Rosberg, Kovalainen etc

IMO, Kimi and Alonso still have the edge over everyone else. Anyone else thinking otherwise, should remember that these guys are afterall World Champions and have proven more than once how they are incredible drivers. I rate them up there with Schumacher really.

Yes i agree with u there. I did not put them as top drivers though I just meant the ones that stand out that could win a race right now.

I rate kimi very high. I think he is better than alonso but at the moment alonso is just being wasted and will be interesting seeing him bring the team forward just like MS did at ferrari.

When Lotus wanted Derek as a top driver, because he was British, he knew it would compramise him, for exaclty the same reasons marcl and mika suggest. Lack of resource to support two top drivers. But yeah wasnt the whole reason for wanting Warick because he was British, and Lotus wanted a British number 1?

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

Unlike Lord Dumfries and Nakajima, Warwick wasnt a no.2 type of driver but neither a top driver. Yet because they wanted so much a british driver in a british team, they tried to get him and Senna vetoed him because Lotus wasnt a team giving conditions to support two drivers at the same time. Peter Warr was trashed by the British Press after it.

At this point Lotus were in financial trouble some months after Colin Chapman's death (heart attack) and sold 25% stocks to Toyota in 1984. Even the JPS/Camel money in the subsequent years werent enough to save them. They were relying on Senna's skills to keep the team up front, and they were never more able to have two top drivers at the same time. Senna did the right thing here IMHO and some years after he told it to Derek. After Sennas departure, Lotus downfall began to happen and they didnt retired before because Piquet kept the team alive for some time scoring points.

Piquet vetoed Senna at Brabham, Prost vetoed Senna at Williams, yet Senna never vetoed them mainly because a) he had full faith in his skills and b) was always looking after the best car of the field - same as Fangio in the 50's and Alonso may be doing the same thing atm keeping an eye on Ferrari.

When I see a driver asking for number 1 status or vetoing other drivers that may pose a threat to them... I usually dont like him but alonso was an exception because he has an entertaining driving style.

But before criticizing any driver for such an atitude you should think "what if I were in his situation? Would i refuse to have him as my teammate or not?" Going a bit more off topic, just for a laugh, I race in an online F1 league and I never vetoed any driver, and I wouldnt do that even if he was a champion, yet I knew some silly guys that refuse to race with their rivals alongside.

You know what ppl say: "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer."

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2008 08:45PM by Bruninho.

So you'd want Massa driving for your team?

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL