*****GP4 Track editing*****
Posted by Eugenio Faria
Xero Wrote:
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> This was the problem I discussed a few pages back.
> The track sectors on which a ccline section begins
> must be calculated exactly. The direction value of
> these sectors must equal the average between the
> previous and next sectors direction values. For
> example: if the next sectors direction value is
> 18000, and the previous is 16000, then make the
> current sectors value 17000. Understand?
>
> Or is this something completely different?!
I understand, what does it help? Does it make the cars follow the line i drew out more closely? Or does it change the way the line behaves in 3deditor? Last one was what i meant, but i dont know if it's a serious issue, maybe its a good ting, it tends to pull the end towards where the ccline should end. anyway, i was just trying to make things work. i now have cars taking the second chicane \o/ (well actually the first, as i removed the one on the frontstraight.) only thing is, (some cars still crash in the first corner, seems i have to get it lined up better, Xero how close does this thing come? 1 digit? or is it roughly?) that after the first turn the cars go verry slow (and shocky btw) over the straight line in the screenshot wich is red, is there a hidden setting for car speed? or is this general "you-screwed-up"-behavior?
-------------------------------------------------------
> This was the problem I discussed a few pages back.
> The track sectors on which a ccline section begins
> must be calculated exactly. The direction value of
> these sectors must equal the average between the
> previous and next sectors direction values. For
> example: if the next sectors direction value is
> 18000, and the previous is 16000, then make the
> current sectors value 17000. Understand?
>
> Or is this something completely different?!
I understand, what does it help? Does it make the cars follow the line i drew out more closely? Or does it change the way the line behaves in 3deditor? Last one was what i meant, but i dont know if it's a serious issue, maybe its a good ting, it tends to pull the end towards where the ccline should end. anyway, i was just trying to make things work. i now have cars taking the second chicane \o/ (well actually the first, as i removed the one on the frontstraight.) only thing is, (some cars still crash in the first corner, seems i have to get it lined up better, Xero how close does this thing come? 1 digit? or is it roughly?) that after the first turn the cars go verry slow (and shocky btw) over the straight line in the screenshot wich is red, is there a hidden setting for car speed? or is this general "you-screwed-up"-behavior?
hm, the sector where the cclinesection starts is totaly in line with the one in fornt, and behind it, all the same value. here's the file for explaining: [maverick.dynasoft.nl]
Well, new version won't help for this as I didn't change cc-line code for this version but I wanted to tell you it should be available (with all the other features ) in a couple of hours 
) in a couple of hours hehe ok, cant wait
On an other thing, you dont know anything about cars not going fast on a straight sector? also what i wanted to ask as a feature, the posibility to directly edit the angle of the ccbends, now we work with those values wich dont stand for anything, wich makes it a lot harder to imagine what you want. so i just entering an angle in degrees would be possible that would be great. also something to see where a ccline section ends, now it flows from selected to normal color with a fade. a hard end would be better so you can see exactly at wich sector it ends/begins. or maybe in the info about the section, not only state the lengt, but also the begin/end section. i know these things wont be high priority, but in the long run they can make trackediting a lot more easy
On an other thing, you dont know anything about cars not going fast on a straight sector? also what i wanted to ask as a feature, the posibility to directly edit the angle of the ccbends, now we work with those values wich dont stand for anything, wich makes it a lot harder to imagine what you want. so i just entering an angle in degrees would be possible that would be great. also something to see where a ccline section ends, now it flows from selected to normal color with a fade. a hard end would be better so you can see exactly at wich sector it ends/begins. or maybe in the info about the section, not only state the lengt, but also the begin/end section. i know these things wont be high priority, but in the long run they can make trackediting a lot more easy
I hear you Dave, who knows what will be in next version
hm, maybe more than i expected
in a couple of hours
YOU LIED!!!
Looking forward to it! Any chance of the changelog before then?!
YOU LIED!!!
Looking forward to it! Any chance of the changelog before then?!
I lied because of Maverick
It took me more time than I expected but it is here anyway (or will be in a few seconds) and I will go to sleep once everything will be up and working.
It took me more time than I expected but it is here anyway (or will be in a few seconds) and I will go to sleep once everything will be up and working.
oeh, 11.7 i've got it, lets try it out
hm, shouldn't the curbs disappear if i remove the V in the box? (the visual ones in the DAT) (fast question ;+)edit ah no i see, i remove them in the details of the section, my fault.
hm, well, cars follow my line, but maybe xero can help me here, as soon as the cars enter a ccline section i created (straight or bend, doesn't matter) they start mini=slalomming, like steering left-right-left-right very fast, it's what makes them go slow, and go off the track when comming close to the grass.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2005 02:46AM by <Maverick>.
hm, shouldn't the curbs disappear if i remove the V in the box? (the visual ones in the DAT) (fast question ;+)edit ah no i see, i remove them in the details of the section, my fault.
hm, well, cars follow my line, but maybe xero can help me here, as soon as the cars enter a ccline section i created (straight or bend, doesn't matter) they start mini=slalomming, like steering left-right-left-right very fast, it's what makes them go slow, and go off the track when comming close to the grass.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2005 02:46AM by <Maverick>.
@Maverick: i'll have a look at your .dat tomorrow.
Been working on my Nurburgring .gp4 file. Spent ages on it, but don't have much to show for it. Here's a couple of shots anyway!
I'm aware that some parts of the track are a bit "fat" in places, but I feel i've got a decent shape there. I'll do some tweaking as I go along. I've rebuilt all the landscape from roughly the edge of the second screen down to turn 1.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2005 04:11AM by Xero.
Been working on my Nurburgring .gp4 file. Spent ages on it, but don't have much to show for it. Here's a couple of shots anyway!
I'm aware that some parts of the track are a bit "fat" in places, but I feel i've got a decent shape there. I'll do some tweaking as I go along. I've rebuilt all the landscape from roughly the edge of the second screen down to turn 1.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2005 04:11AM by Xero.
feature request(s)
when creating a new corner in DAT it is very hard, beacuse the ARM DIRECTION of the section is modeled after the section in front and behind, is it passoible to make the arm directions (left and right) align with the "spline" (is it called that?) of the section? becasue editing the arm direction maually for al sectors to make it "editable" is quite a hassle because of the not degrees but numbers thing. If this feature is not possible to make for you, is it then possible to make the arm direction editable in degrees?
also, when pressing the ADD button for a section the focus comes out of the selectbox, so i cant press up/down to go to an other section, could you make it that the focus stays there for the up/down button?
and, when modelling a track from scratch you need to load a background, but you dont want all buildings standing in your site, so can you make it possible to just only load the DAT/bin/col but sill be able to import/create visual objects, wich will make their own .gp file if youy save them?(so you can remember the position, and maybe later create a 3d track from scratch)
finally, when modeling an layout, you constantly want to displace and rotate the bits, what you dont do is make the sections higher/lower, because you do a flat track first(i presume i'm not the only one doing it like that) could it be possible to have (in adition to the mouse sswap setting) a setting to have the left mousebutton for moving, and the right button for rotating. so you dont constantly have to switch form rotate to displace and vice versa.
nice job on 11.7 so far btw
BUG? when i edit the arm direction, the arm directon of the next section changes, not the one i selected.
editwhat MAY also be handy, is that when i select bank description in the sectors' details i can displace the endpoint of the bank with the displace funtion of the gfx window.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2005 01:16PM by <Maverick>.
when creating a new corner in DAT it is very hard, beacuse the ARM DIRECTION of the section is modeled after the section in front and behind, is it passoible to make the arm directions (left and right) align with the "spline" (is it called that?) of the section? becasue editing the arm direction maually for al sectors to make it "editable" is quite a hassle because of the not degrees but numbers thing. If this feature is not possible to make for you, is it then possible to make the arm direction editable in degrees?
also, when pressing the ADD button for a section the focus comes out of the selectbox, so i cant press up/down to go to an other section, could you make it that the focus stays there for the up/down button?
and, when modelling a track from scratch you need to load a background, but you dont want all buildings standing in your site, so can you make it possible to just only load the DAT/bin/col but sill be able to import/create visual objects, wich will make their own .gp file if youy save them?(so you can remember the position, and maybe later create a 3d track from scratch)
finally, when modeling an layout, you constantly want to displace and rotate the bits, what you dont do is make the sections higher/lower, because you do a flat track first(i presume i'm not the only one doing it like that) could it be possible to have (in adition to the mouse sswap setting) a setting to have the left mousebutton for moving, and the right button for rotating. so you dont constantly have to switch form rotate to displace and vice versa.
nice job on 11.7 so far btw
BUG? when i edit the arm direction, the arm directon of the next section changes, not the one i selected.
editwhat MAY also be handy, is that when i select bank description in the sectors' details i can displace the endpoint of the bank with the displace funtion of the gfx window.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2005 01:16PM by <Maverick>.
I made a dat ages ago that followed the new section, but I disbanded it when I realised starting from the .gp4 is easier and quicker. I'll have to remake it, but im confident it'll be fairly straight forward. It's the col file that has me stumped so far... Laurent?
OK, well, I took some time to answer all your points, Dave and I will see for new .col/.bin editing...
OK so here we go with Q&A:
you dont know anything about cars not going fast on a straight sector?
NO, I don't know as I still hadn't time to heavily test cc-line aspects...
the posibility to directly edit the angle of the ccbends, now we work with those values wich dont stand for anything, wich makes it a lot harder to imagine what you want. so i just entering an angle in degrees would be possible that would be great.
Well first these are not values which stands for anything, these are radius length.
Anyway, there are two trouble, entering angle in degree instead of radius length:
- Hazardous precision because the angle value you will input will need to be rounded to closest radius length in mm
- Using angles for complex curves would mean nothing because complex curves can't be defined by two angles, only by two radiuses and we can't get radiuses from two (or even one) angle either.
to see where a ccline section ends, now it flows from selected to normal color with a fade. a hard end would be better so you can see exactly at wich sector it ends/begins.
Done in v11.7 :p
in the info about the section, not only state the lengt, but also the begin/end section. i know these things wont be high priority, but in the long run they can make trackediting a lot more easy
Would it be really usefull ?
when creating a new corner in DAT it is very hard, beacuse the ARM DIRECTION of the section is modeled after the section in front and behind, is it possible to make the arm directions (left and right) align with the "spline" (is it called that?) of the section?
This offset between sector and bank's arm direction is here since the beginning badly.
I found a solution to solve it yesterday, but I was afraid it could mess .bin creation or cc-line display and preferred disabling it for v11.7 release.
I will have anyhow to apply it in future because this ofset is responsible for the messy Monaco display (and mabye other tracks too).
It's not a spline but I understand what you mean
If this feature is not possible to make for you, is it then possible to make the arm direction editable in degrees?
I think this one should be done because precision is not that important here and minor difference in rounding should not be felt in game".
also, when pressing the ADD button for a section the focus comes out of the selectbox, so i cant press up/down to go to an other section, could you make it that the focus stays there for the up/down button?
Really ? It might comes from the very latest changes I did then...
OK, That's fixed for next version
when modelling a track from scratch you need to load a background, but you dont want all buildings standing in your site, so can you make it possible to just only load the DAT/bin/col but sill be able to import/create visual objects, wich will make their own .gp file if youy save them?(so you can remember the position, and maybe later create a 3d track from scratch)
Well, I havn't solve this matter of background object yet as objects are only supported by 3DEditor for .gp4 files.
Creating objects on top of .bin/.col/.dat to save them to .gp4 for a future track from ground is science-fiction
when modeling an layout, you constantly want to displace and rotate the bits, what you dont do is make the sections higher/lower, because you do a flat track first(i presume i'm not the only one doing it like that) could it be possible to have (in adition to the mouse swap setting) a setting to have the left mousebutton for moving, and the right button for rotating. so you dont constantly have to switch form rotate to displace and vice versa.
Hmm, this can be an option, yes.
nice job on 11.7 so far btw
At last a good point
BUG? when i edit the arm direction, the arm directon of the next section changes, not the one i selected.
It's like that since very early .dat support in 3DEditor (see my answer to arm direction above).
what MAY also be handy, is that when i select bank description in the sectors' details i can displace the endpoint of the bank with the displace funtion of the gfx window.
That's an idea. [some minutes later] Done, will be in next version [/some minutes later]
OK so here we go with Q&A:
you dont know anything about cars not going fast on a straight sector?
NO, I don't know as I still hadn't time to heavily test cc-line aspects...
the posibility to directly edit the angle of the ccbends, now we work with those values wich dont stand for anything, wich makes it a lot harder to imagine what you want. so i just entering an angle in degrees would be possible that would be great.
Well first these are not values which stands for anything, these are radius length.
Anyway, there are two trouble, entering angle in degree instead of radius length:
- Hazardous precision because the angle value you will input will need to be rounded to closest radius length in mm
- Using angles for complex curves would mean nothing because complex curves can't be defined by two angles, only by two radiuses and we can't get radiuses from two (or even one) angle either.
to see where a ccline section ends, now it flows from selected to normal color with a fade. a hard end would be better so you can see exactly at wich sector it ends/begins.
Done in v11.7 :p
in the info about the section, not only state the lengt, but also the begin/end section. i know these things wont be high priority, but in the long run they can make trackediting a lot more easy
Would it be really usefull ?
when creating a new corner in DAT it is very hard, beacuse the ARM DIRECTION of the section is modeled after the section in front and behind, is it possible to make the arm directions (left and right) align with the "spline" (is it called that?) of the section?
This offset between sector and bank's arm direction is here since the beginning badly.
I found a solution to solve it yesterday, but I was afraid it could mess .bin creation or cc-line display and preferred disabling it for v11.7 release.
I will have anyhow to apply it in future because this ofset is responsible for the messy Monaco display (and mabye other tracks too).
It's not a spline but I understand what you mean
If this feature is not possible to make for you, is it then possible to make the arm direction editable in degrees?
I think this one should be done because precision is not that important here and minor difference in rounding should not be felt in game".
also, when pressing the ADD button for a section the focus comes out of the selectbox, so i cant press up/down to go to an other section, could you make it that the focus stays there for the up/down button?
Really ? It might comes from the very latest changes I did then...
OK, That's fixed for next version
when modelling a track from scratch you need to load a background, but you dont want all buildings standing in your site, so can you make it possible to just only load the DAT/bin/col but sill be able to import/create visual objects, wich will make their own .gp file if youy save them?(so you can remember the position, and maybe later create a 3d track from scratch)
Well, I havn't solve this matter of background object yet as objects are only supported by 3DEditor for .gp4 files.
Creating objects on top of .bin/.col/.dat to save them to .gp4 for a future track from ground is science-fiction
when modeling an layout, you constantly want to displace and rotate the bits, what you dont do is make the sections higher/lower, because you do a flat track first(i presume i'm not the only one doing it like that) could it be possible to have (in adition to the mouse swap setting) a setting to have the left mousebutton for moving, and the right button for rotating. so you dont constantly have to switch form rotate to displace and vice versa.
Hmm, this can be an option, yes.
nice job on 11.7 so far btw
At last a good point
BUG? when i edit the arm direction, the arm directon of the next section changes, not the one i selected.
It's like that since very early .dat support in 3DEditor (see my answer to arm direction above).
what MAY also be handy, is that when i select bank description in the sectors' details i can displace the endpoint of the bank with the displace funtion of the gfx window.
That's an idea. [some minutes later] Done, will be in next version
[/some minutes later]
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