2010 German Grand Prix ****SPOILERS****
Posted by chet
LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat
Fernando Alonso demanded McLaren force Lewis Hamilton to play second fiddle, it is alleged today.
The double world champion's Ferrari team were fined after benefitting from team orders in Germany on Sunday.
Paddock sources say he had talks with McLaren bosses Martin Whitmarsh and Ron Dennis on the morning of the 2007 Hungarian Grand Prix.
After a controversial qualifying session, Alonso demanded McLaren give him priority within the team. The day before, his rivalry with Hamilton over the world championship had burst into the open with an on-track confrontation.
Alonso had roared to pole, but only by blocking his teammate and preventing him getting in a fast lap.
Stewards dropped the Spaniard to sixth and Hamilton was elevated to pole.
On race-day, Hamilton roared to victory to stretch his lead in the title race to seven points.
Alonso charged to fourth to reduce the damage caused by his own dubious tactics.
It is claimed that on the morning of the event he confronted the team and wanted to be given preferrential treatment on the track over his rookie team-mate, but that McLaren refused to do so. And months later they lost the world title by a single point. Alonso's manager, Luis Abad, denied the 2007 claim when he said: "I don't want to talk about it but in any case, it's not true."
Last night team boss Whitmarsh refused to comment specifically on that day in Hungary three years ago.
But he said Britain's top team would never stoop to favouritism and the tactics that see Ferrari in the dock over Sunday's German GP, facing a possible ban from the sport. "There is no doubt that this team desperately wants to win world championships," said Whitmarsh.
"We are immensely competitive and it does cause most of us a physical pain when we are not winning. It is a deeply unpleasant experience and that drives us on.
"During 2007 we sacrificed a world championship. We lost a championship by one point.
"Had we leaned to the advantage of one of our two drivers that year - and there were lots of temptations to do so - then it would have made enough of a difference to have acquired the extra point to have won the championship.
"During that phase I remember talking to the drivers and their management and saying what a great driver would want to do is look at himself in the mirror and say 'I have won this world championship on merit' and not by the team leaning one way and giving him an advantage.
"If McLaren won a championship where I think we did something dodgy to achieve it... if you did the record book might show it but in your heart I don't think you would have the same feeling of pleasure.
"If you win against the odds it is slightly more enjoyable. If you win when you have swayed it to your advantage by cheating or doing something unsporting, you would not feel so good."
LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat
The double world champion's Ferrari team were fined after benefitting from team orders in Germany on Sunday.
Paddock sources say he had talks with McLaren bosses Martin Whitmarsh and Ron Dennis on the morning of the 2007 Hungarian Grand Prix.
After a controversial qualifying session, Alonso demanded McLaren give him priority within the team. The day before, his rivalry with Hamilton over the world championship had burst into the open with an on-track confrontation.
Alonso had roared to pole, but only by blocking his teammate and preventing him getting in a fast lap.
Stewards dropped the Spaniard to sixth and Hamilton was elevated to pole.
On race-day, Hamilton roared to victory to stretch his lead in the title race to seven points.
Alonso charged to fourth to reduce the damage caused by his own dubious tactics.
It is claimed that on the morning of the event he confronted the team and wanted to be given preferrential treatment on the track over his rookie team-mate, but that McLaren refused to do so. And months later they lost the world title by a single point. Alonso's manager, Luis Abad, denied the 2007 claim when he said: "I don't want to talk about it but in any case, it's not true."
Last night team boss Whitmarsh refused to comment specifically on that day in Hungary three years ago.
But he said Britain's top team would never stoop to favouritism and the tactics that see Ferrari in the dock over Sunday's German GP, facing a possible ban from the sport. "There is no doubt that this team desperately wants to win world championships," said Whitmarsh.
"We are immensely competitive and it does cause most of us a physical pain when we are not winning. It is a deeply unpleasant experience and that drives us on.
"During 2007 we sacrificed a world championship. We lost a championship by one point.
"Had we leaned to the advantage of one of our two drivers that year - and there were lots of temptations to do so - then it would have made enough of a difference to have acquired the extra point to have won the championship.
"During that phase I remember talking to the drivers and their management and saying what a great driver would want to do is look at himself in the mirror and say 'I have won this world championship on merit' and not by the team leaning one way and giving him an advantage.
"If McLaren won a championship where I think we did something dodgy to achieve it... if you did the record book might show it but in your heart I don't think you would have the same feeling of pleasure.
"If you win against the odds it is slightly more enjoyable. If you win when you have swayed it to your advantage by cheating or doing something unsporting, you would not feel so good."
LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat
Seeing that, and that FIA didnt do anything about that, they cant punish Ferrari.
Edit: thats Hockenheim 08 and Heikki letting Lewis overtake him
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2010 04:53AM by Frantic.
its like standing on top of a ladder. even though it has that sticker on it saying 'Do Not Stand on or above this Tread' everyone still does it all the time. but ferrari have just stepped on that top step in a field of work place health and safety officers. They should get a warning for it but nothing can be done by it as everyone does it all the time can think of numerous times it has happened in the past.
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Marcl - I didnt want to be the first to say but I now question ALonso's involvment in 08 at Singapore.
He's shown what he would do to win, and he's shown this season what an uncompramising character he is, waving his arms about at every opportunity when a backmarker decides to be on track at the same time.
He celebrated this German GP victory like he earned it. Like he had to fight through the field through Mclarens and RBR's. The guy has no shame.
I see 2007 in a much different light now. The way he waved his arms at Indy because Lewis wouldnt let him past. The way he childishly held Lewis up at Hungary. He would do anything to win so now, I certainly wouldnt put it past him about 08.
fresco - Mclaren would not have easily won in they focused on Alonso. ALonso had more testing time with the new car, infact I believe more in total, so he came in to 07 with more experience, and more f1 experience with Mclaren. Yet Lewis matched him from 4-5 races in and dominated him at Canada and some races beyond. For Mclaren to focus on Alonso would have been criminal and possibly detrimental to themselves. I have no doubts Ron favoured Lewis, but as a team nothing was done to hurt Alonso and his performance. He did that himself.
For Germany 08, you will find Kova moved because he wanted to move. He knew the situation of the race and WDC and he himself decided that without any outside influence.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
He's shown what he would do to win, and he's shown this season what an uncompramising character he is, waving his arms about at every opportunity when a backmarker decides to be on track at the same time.
He celebrated this German GP victory like he earned it. Like he had to fight through the field through Mclarens and RBR's. The guy has no shame.
I see 2007 in a much different light now. The way he waved his arms at Indy because Lewis wouldnt let him past. The way he childishly held Lewis up at Hungary. He would do anything to win so now, I certainly wouldnt put it past him about 08.
fresco - Mclaren would not have easily won in they focused on Alonso. ALonso had more testing time with the new car, infact I believe more in total, so he came in to 07 with more experience, and more f1 experience with Mclaren. Yet Lewis matched him from 4-5 races in and dominated him at Canada and some races beyond. For Mclaren to focus on Alonso would have been criminal and possibly detrimental to themselves. I have no doubts Ron favoured Lewis, but as a team nothing was done to hurt Alonso and his performance. He did that himself.
For Germany 08, you will find Kova moved because he wanted to move. He knew the situation of the race and WDC and he himself decided that without any outside influence.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
DaveEllis Wrote:
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> In my employer asks me to break rules, I refuse.
> That could include Health and Safety laws, it
> could include company policies, or it could
> include something else. What Ferrari did was in
> direct violation of the sporting code, and asking
> the staff to do it was completely out of order.
You should come and work for my employer, you'd have a field day... the upper management don't know their arses from their elbows. Pretty much everything they say... they almost immediately go on to contradict with their actions, they u-turn on things so often it usually goes round in circles.
At my level... on the "shop floor" very much on the front line, it very much depends on who is in charge of the shift as to what constitutes the right way to do things, consequentiality it makes staff like me look stupid... because of the red tape and bureaucracy, the stupidity of higher management, and lack of clarity and direction that causes makes it very difficult to do my job consistently. And since my role has the most face to face contact with the "customer" inevitability it's me who is going to get most of the flak.
I can't say too much... save for that a disgruntled former employee ratted about them in the papers. The article got pretty much everything spot on....however it happened to be the daily mail of all things so I doubt anyone actually took it seriously.
I'm not going to name names, but I know all too well what it's like to be instructed to do things that are not only against company policy, but also things that stretch the envelope of legality, and it's not an easy situation to be in... it's not clear cut what you do. On the one hand... you want to stand your ground and say no... because if you're found out... you personally are in trouble and can bet your bottom dollar that the person who instructed you will not back you up. But also that very person who instructed you can makes things hard for you if you don't follow their orders... so it's a bit like being stuck between a rock and a hard place, you're dammed if you and dammed if you don't.
---
Going back to the Ferrari thing, it was obvious that they knew exactly what they were doing and they were fully aware that it is against the regulations. The body language of the team on the pit-wall was like an open book... they looked embarrassed even before Massa bowed to thinly veiled order. Smedly in particular looked like he finding things extremely awkward, he obviously didn't want a part in that what so ever... but he's a employee and he would have been fearing the consequence of his job if he didn't follow instruction himself. I can empathise with him entirely.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2010 10:35AM by J i m.
-------------------------------------------------------
> In my employer asks me to break rules, I refuse.
> That could include Health and Safety laws, it
> could include company policies, or it could
> include something else. What Ferrari did was in
> direct violation of the sporting code, and asking
> the staff to do it was completely out of order.
You should come and work for my employer, you'd have a field day... the upper management don't know their arses from their elbows. Pretty much everything they say... they almost immediately go on to contradict with their actions, they u-turn on things so often it usually goes round in circles.
At my level... on the "shop floor" very much on the front line, it very much depends on who is in charge of the shift as to what constitutes the right way to do things, consequentiality it makes staff like me look stupid... because of the red tape and bureaucracy, the stupidity of higher management, and lack of clarity and direction that causes makes it very difficult to do my job consistently. And since my role has the most face to face contact with the "customer" inevitability it's me who is going to get most of the flak.
I can't say too much... save for that a disgruntled former employee ratted about them in the papers. The article got pretty much everything spot on....however it happened to be the daily mail of all things so I doubt anyone actually took it seriously.
I'm not going to name names, but I know all too well what it's like to be instructed to do things that are not only against company policy, but also things that stretch the envelope of legality, and it's not an easy situation to be in... it's not clear cut what you do. On the one hand... you want to stand your ground and say no... because if you're found out... you personally are in trouble and can bet your bottom dollar that the person who instructed you will not back you up. But also that very person who instructed you can makes things hard for you if you don't follow their orders... so it's a bit like being stuck between a rock and a hard place, you're dammed if you and dammed if you don't.
---
Going back to the Ferrari thing, it was obvious that they knew exactly what they were doing and they were fully aware that it is against the regulations. The body language of the team on the pit-wall was like an open book... they looked embarrassed even before Massa bowed to thinly veiled order. Smedly in particular looked like he finding things extremely awkward, he obviously didn't want a part in that what so ever... but he's a employee and he would have been fearing the consequence of his job if he didn't follow instruction himself. I can empathise with him entirely.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2010 10:35AM by J i m.
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