2010 German Grand Prix ****SPOILERS****

Monza972 Wrote:
.
> Disregards everything for the sport just so that
> they can get pramboy to win. idiots. Felt so sorry
> for Felipe and Rob Smedley today.

lol pramboy

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gav Wrote:
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> >
> Hang on, Lewis is the closest we've had to this
> situation (bring the sport into disrepute) with
> lie-gate. It's the lying which has got the WMSC
> involved, not the act itself.
>
> Equally I don't think you can accuse Alonso of not
> being a 'real racer'. He's had plenty of 'help'
> from Renault and Ferrari in manufacturing results
> in his favour, but the guy is at worst the 2nd
> best racer on the grid. 1 (or 2) actions from his
> team doesn't change the mentality of someone. He
> should have been strong enough to have said "no, I
> don't want to win it this way", but you can't
> honestly say with absolute certainty that in the
> same situation you wouldn't have done exactly the
> same.

I think you've misunderstood... What I meant about lewis and the others was that instead of saying, "this is rediculous" they would have gone out there to try and race to win! can you see lewis on the radio moaning about jenson being in front? likewise with button? they will race for the posistion!

Button has dones this though. I can recall several moments when he's said he's quicker than Rubens, but BAR/Honda/Brawn promptly told him, if he's quick enough then overtake. However in a posistion such as today, ie for a race win, he, and the others, Vettel and Webber would have shutup and went for the win.

Gav, i still think he's the best out there, maybe joint with lewis, but today was silly. If he wanted to get in front of massa he should have tired to overtake. I saw one attempt, then he moaned. or he moaned, then made an attempt.

---

"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

It's just wrong. This was Felipe's day, he got the upper hand at the start and this is almost exactly a year on since his crash at Hungary. Essentially, Felipe has had to work hard to get to his old level, and his hard-fought charge was taken away for the sake of a championship that's only half way through.

It's illegal too. I know teams will employ team orders, but Ferrari made a mockery of the regulations that the teams do their best to adhere to. If that rules gone down the pan, then teams may as well stick traction control on, or maybe stick a rocket or two on the car just to get a bit of speed down the straights.

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GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski

marcl Wrote:
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> What was the resent mclaren team order then? Save
> fuel I always thought meant hold station tbh but
> in Turkey it was found Mclaren only had enough
> fuel for half a lap more so you can see why they
> done it. I dont see how teams can expect to win
> races if they cannot drive flat out all the time
> its stupid.



Teams don't fill up their tanks all the way, they add as much fuel as they calculate they'll need for the race plus roughly 1 extra liter for possible FIA post-race inspections.

^Yes I know, but its meant to be f1 not an endurance race.

Quote
marcl
^Yes I know, but its meant to be f1 not an endurance race.

It's calculated to be the fastest way from lights to flag. Lower fuel equals faster laps early on, then when it goes quieter in the 2nd half of the race, you'll find the opportunity to save fuel, which must cost you less than running with enough fuel to run flat out at the start.

They don't deliberately underfill the cars in order to make it a stretching exercise - they do it because they know it's the fastest way to go from start to finish.

we all know it came from the top that massa had to let fernando thru. massa says it was his decision. it dont make sense. why would he? why would button just let lewis through, mark let vettel through? ive heard that many explanations, missed 3 gears, let fa thru, tyre probs, etc.?

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lol heres the script of them getting slated by the press

[planetf1.com]

BBC F1 analyst Martin Brundle: "I'm thinking two things. One is, Massa is 31 points behind Alonso but there are 225 still available including this race and there are 25 points for a win. The other is that has a slight whiff of Austria 2002 about it. What would we do if we were Ferrari's team management? What we don't know is what the contracts say. If I was the Ferrari team management, I think I would do the same thing. In Austria 2002 they didn't need to do that - Michael Schumacher was miles ahead in the championship - and now they do. They've had a tough few races and they need that to bring Alonso back into play in the championship."

Not saying hes right or wrong thats his viewpoint, unsurprisingly ms agress with what ferrari done. i say again the 7 points gained by alonso could be absolutely crucial. take the 7 points now and you wont have to worry at the end of the seaosn about what ifs. again i reckon all of us would put money on alonso to be in the fight till the end over massa. really bad for massa for sure, im sure he could have easily won this gp.

BBC F1 analyst David Coulthard: "For me this whole rule about team orders is ridiculous. You shouldn't stop teams being able to control their race result. Like video evidence at the World Cup, it is time to change that rule."

BBC F1 pundit Eddie Jordan: "It was unlawful and was theft. They stole from us the chance of having a wheel-to-wheel contest between the drivers. Ferrari should be ashamed. This was a team order. For me, it is cheating and these two cars should be excluded."

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2010 10:18PM by rapid_f1.

Martin is right, but we have the what if of whether Massa wins mroe GP's and brings himself into contention. Then what? What if he loses the WDC by 6 points? How crucial would these 7 be then?

It's still too early in the season imo. I dont know how anyone can support what Ferrari have done.

---

"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

i think martin is correct also, he says the decision to do it is correct, but the way it was done was crass. rob smedley will prob get a beating for the way he said it and for saying sorry.

martin also brings up a good point, why did it take the stweards so long to investigate? it happened 20 laps from the end?

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2010 10:46PM by rapid_f1.

matt3454 Wrote:
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> As with any other sport, spaniards always resort
> to cheating to win.

I´m sorry but that´s just rubbish. Last time I checked Ferrari were Italian. Spain won the world cup through playing well and as a team, same with the Euros, no cheating necessary. If you are going to insult a whole nation at least back up that claim. You may not like Alonso, fine. But don´t insult a whole nation because they are doing better than yours without any reason.

airefresco Schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> matt3454 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > As with any other sport, spaniards always
> resort
> > to cheating to win.
>
> I´m sorry but that´s just rubbish. Last time I
> checked Ferrari were Italian. Spain won the world
> cup through playing well and as a team, same with
> the Euros, no cheating necessary. If you are
> going to insult a whole nation at least back up
> that claim. You may not like Alonso, fine. But
> don´t insult a whole nation because they are
> doing better than yours without any reason.


i think he was referring to contador who attacked andy when he had technical problems

gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > ^Yes I know, but its meant to be f1 not an
> endurance race.
>
>
> It's calculated to be the fastest way from lights
> to flag. Lower fuel equals faster laps early on,
> then when it goes quieter in the 2nd half of the
> race, you'll find the opportunity to save fuel,
> which must cost you less than running with enough
> fuel to run flat out at the start.

I doubt it's faster on pure race time, it's just strategically better as the positions are generally decided in the early parts of the race until a few laps after the first pitstops. Doesn't really matter if you end up 10 seconds slower than your optimum race time if the other guys are stuck behind you.

the most hilarious thing in all this is Alonso's ridiculous notion that all rules can be bent just to suit himself.

I quote Alonso from Valencia after the Hamilton safety car saga:

"The fans did not come here to see a manipulated race."

Yet he feels that he can manipulate the results when it rolls in his favour.

Hmm.

Hope Alonso gets no points from the next 3 races, while Massa gets at least 50. That'll leave Ferrari regretting this.

and i suppose if we wanna get super technical about it, there is no difference between implementing team orders in the last race of the season, as opposed to half way through.

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Today we were denied the chance to see Massa return to the top step of the podium when he was all set to, because of team orders, one year to the day after he nearly lost his life. For that reason alone(apart from anything else) I'm gutted, and see this as a bad day for the sport.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2010 01:54AM by EC83.

if ferrari had done it another way, say with a proper coded message, and massa had gone wide at a corner locking brakes and allowing alonsi through, would that have been more palatable?

the way isee it ferrari made entirely the right decision, they just fkued up in the pit radio and trying to cover up afterwards.

and yes massa may go on to win the next 8 races but the team have to make a judgement call, whos got the better chance of title, alosno or massa? no contest.

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Then they should just be honest and not try and cover it up. Either way they have been found guilty and the world council will come down on them. After all the stuff Ferrari and alonso said about rules breakers after Valencia how can they then go and break a rule which they caused to be put in place.

Due to the old Ferrari we have that rule and in the past the points were changed to stop teams from doing that. People kept telling me Ferrari had changed, well have they?