Belgium Grand Prix 2008 ***SPOILERS***

The whole reason lewis got the penalty was due to the pass at the 1st corner simple as that, i still think over half the grid would have done that move just one of them things. Alonso showed he would do that as well as he did in japan few years back, its just racers the see a gap and go for it.

But if I remember back I dont remember half the people going on about lewis now having a problem with it infact they could see nothing wrong and though he was wrong to get told to let klien back pass.

Anyway thats my last post on this now, we all have different views on it and as far as I can tell from the rules all lewis had to do was let kimi back pass which he did. Its not his fault kimi did not defend the inside line and that let him back pass.

Gav I fully understand where you are coming from btw, I just think kimi broke to early for the 1st corner and left the door well and truly open, maybe it was a trick i dont know. But I dont think it was lewis ego taking over, he is a racer and as i said anyone would have done that move. From what other people are saying kimi had bad problems getting out the last corner and nearly when off and ended up wheel spinning, I have not seen it though. Lewis has said he never even got to full throttle down the start finish straight so was was kimi doing?

This whole thing has nothing to do with ferrari btw love them or hate them, all they done was gave evidence when asked to. I dont even dislike ferrari any more or their drivers I just want to see good racing and it anoys me that the last 2 races have finished without knowing the result.

As i said though we are seeing it different and as i said did it change the result no!

The last time I remember anyone loosing a win for cutting a chicane was 1989 Japan.

Kovy got a drive through today which was correct but there have been other crashes this year where nothing has been done. Also kimi passed lewis today but using the run off area, yes lewis had spun but rules are rules that pass was not done on the race track and as people have said what trulli done today so really dangerous.



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2008 01:30AM by marcl.

well I'm not a ferrari hater and hamilton isn't my here but I just like fair racing... and the fia isn't fair in their decisions

hope they will give a penalty to the williams driver instead
that was really wreckless driving... I assume it was kazu! but I don't know witch one was it?? I dont get HD :P

PЯuИNИ



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Trulli should've been given a penalty as well, that was a gross move he made, i was just waiting for the car that was supposed to crash into him..

Slash Wrote:
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>
> go look at it again, Kimi lost time going wide and
> loosing traction, he got behind hamilton because
> your idol spun, had Kimi not run wide, he would've
> overtaken him before Eau Rougue
>
> you people (Ferrari haters) have this in your mind
> somehow, wasn't it in 2005 that FIA changed the
> rules to stop Shumacher and Ferrari from winning?
> Mclaren shouldn't be racing anyways, they where
> supposed to be kicked out of this years
> championship for spying on Ferrari, yet again they
> run with a lot of stuff last year, like team
> orders at monaco, or Hamilton re-entry at the
> Nurburg GP, etc.. and this year as well, like
> Hamilton taking Kimi out on the pit at Canada,
> team orders at Hockenheim and Magny...
>
> but still sometimes they can't get away with
> everything, and stewards are hard on them because
> they put themselves in that position with
> everything that happened last year, otherwise
> people would be saying that FIA let Mclaren do
> what they want

Funny you mention Ferrari haters as you sound alot like a McLaren hater...

Anyways, I feel that Hamilton deserved a penalty, maybe not 25s (unless that is the penalty stated in the rules) but it was deserving of some sort of penalty. Had Hamilton not cut the chicane he would not have been close enough to Kimi to make the pass at T1. Its as simple as that, unfortunately for Hamilton.

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Kimi didn't even finish the race so i can not see what the problem is. Before anyone says that he would have if Hamilton didnt over take him then he probably would have crashed in the Williams or gone off like Hamilton did. Kimi did regain the lead only to spin and let Hamilton back through then eventually crash. Hamilton is a much better wet weather driver than Kimi anyway, so I would guess that he would have overtook him anyway.

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At Suzuka in 2005 Alonso had made a similar pass on Klien. He had cut the chicane, let Klien pass him and when Klien passed him, he had immediately entered into his slipstream and overtook him. If he hadn't cut the chicane he also would not have been able to enter his slipstream easily. But that was considered a fair move. Why he had to let Klien pass once more was just a misunderstanding of radiotalk, not because the stewards considered Alonso didn't slow enough.

watercolours Wrote:
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> At Suzuka in 2005 Alonso had made a similar pass
> on Klien. He had cut the chicane, let Klien pass
> him and when Klien passed him, he had immediately
> entered into his slipstream and overtook him. If
> he hadn't cut the chicane he also would not have
> been able to enter his slipstream easily. But that
> was considered a fair move. Why he had to let
> Klien pass once more was just a misunderstanding
> of radiotalk, not because the stewards considered
> Alonso didn't slow enough.


Yeah but when did the law of precedent ever apply in Formula One?

Crap decision is all I'll say.

i have the feeling that mclaren is often a bit unlucky in many situations. when a ferrari is involved in a controversial situation there is always some room for interpretation. its always on the borderline of the regulations. when a mclaren is involved it is more clear in what way rules should be applied.
some examples:

06: some teams complained the ferrari frontwing would flex too much during the malaysian gp. of course the fia had tested it before - it was ok - and so they asked ferrari to attach the upper wings to the nosecone. ferrari was clearly going to the limit with the wing to gain max. advantage.
<-> 97: 2 brake pedals found in the mclarens. not allowed so punishment

08 monaco: kimi lost control and hit sutil. bad luck for both and saying it was avoidable would mean drivers are not allowed to make mistakes any more.
<-> 08 spa: kova crashing into webber, clearly avoidable -> drive through

so ferrari: interpretation room left, punishment not harsh but in the limits
mclaren: cases often quite clear -> punishment according to the rules

i also have ever had the feeling that ferrari is more intelligent when it comes to cheating than mclaren. their behaviour makes them very vulnerable.

I still don't accept this penalty. Lewis had gone from being alongside, to ahead due to cutting a chicane. he then allowed Kimi to overtake him (or was overtaken by Kimi). Kimi then went defensive into T1 and Lewis retook him. I understand the view that the way Lewis gave the place back allowed him to gain an advantage, although i dont necessarily agree, but it cannot be denied that the place was given back.


After reviewing previous incidents of this nature, particularly Alonso - Klien Suzka 05, I don't see any sense. That one was extremely similar to this. however, a few laps later Alonso was ordered to move over and allow Klien re pass. A quick search of the 'net indicates that afterwards the stewards apologised for this, saying it was unnecessary.

This leads me to my next thought. Lewis is being punished due to Kimi crashing. I have no doubt, personally, that if Kimi was still in the race, he Lewis would have been ordered to allow him to repass. The 25s penalty is overly harsh and does not fit the 'crime' so to speak.

Sim

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All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!

"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole

shortly after the 4th pic lh steered left. after seing these pics i wonder even more why he cut the chicane.

Just 1 more thing later in the lap kimi got an advantage by using a run off area to close in on lewis who went back on the track asap after leaving it, lewis avoided the williams but kimi passed him but kimi was closer than he should have been.

Also lewis did not pick up kimis slip stream. He was not behind him for long enough plus kimi moved about 3 times.

We were not in the car so we dont know the grip, i still think lewis thought they would crash so turned left. Lewis was backing off kimi was gaining speed so how the hell did lewis get an advantage?

And as I and many have said Kimi crashed the pass did not change the result at all, kimi was in 2nd place due to his own error. Kimi was driving like a different person today, normally very fair on track today he was not. A man with nothing to loose which is fair enough.







Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2008 02:04AM by marcl.

It is always the same sad story. I've read nearly all the comments here, some agree, other do not. From a racing point of view Lewis did try to pass, Kimi let the Ferrari run wide some kind of reason and he might have hit the McLaren. The camara do not gave a straight answer. Anyway Lewis took the shortcut, not the racing line, and let Kimi pass. Of course you try to keep your momentum. Lewis let Kimi a car length in front of him at start / finish (look at the pictures again), and yes Kimi was all over the place before breaking in order to keep Lewis behind. Kimi breaked very early for La Source, look at the lap before this lap please. You'll see Kimi breaking much later in order to keep Lewis behind.
Lewis gambled and took the inside line, passed clean, and was slammed in the rear tyre by Kimi (doing a M. Schumacher I think).

So next is Monza and McLaren will be set back on the grid, because their Vodafone red colour is to Ferrari red.

That is the level of amateurism the stewarts have sunk to... It's a shame that Ferrari can do anything (within certan degree), and McLaren is the witch hunted team, again.
I go to sleep with the thought that it might rain in Monza, and Lewis and Heikki win by a lap from the third car...a red one, can not think of the make actually...

This chicane battle reminded me to similar one between Schumi and Alonso in Bahrain 2006. Schumi was in similar situatian as Hamilton today and didnt cut the chicane and he could. So my point is that Lewis could avoid cutting the chicane by letting his foot of the gas pedal but then he would loose that fight. I dont even know why he fought so hard when he was only 2 points behind Kimi and 2 points in front of Massa. Cant wait Monza though

____________________________________________

[webberfanscreens.blogspot.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2008 01:46PM by Webber Fan.

Bull Hamilton gained time out of it. He was right on Kimis gearbox at the final chicane, and beside him going into it. He lifted off enough to give Kimi a half car length or more lead. I think it was fair game.

What a farce F1 has become after what happened with Massa in Valencia and now this. I assumed the stewards didn't want to mess with the championship so that's why they didn't penalise Massa during the race and then proceed to give Ferrari a poor penalty. But they proved that it was just more Ferrari bias.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2008 04:02AM by Trido.

I think Sim shares the same opinion I do on the incident, would be interesting to see what his final sector time was like compared to him 2 laps before (no point comparing it with Kimi because he closed like 6tenths in the final sector up to the incident).

Decision doesn't surprise me in the slightest, I wonder what treats the FIA have up their sleeve for next weekend.

A wise person, however, might point out that there are certain intrinsic, unquantifiable factors involved in motor racing, and that one Lewis Hamilton pulled the exact same move on first Massa, then Piquet at Hockenheim in July -- forcing them both onto runoff on exit from an extremely slow corner and leaving them with no choice but to back off and fall behind him. That person might also contend that justice, in its often odd way, has been served.

I'm not inclined to disagree.

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theRacingLine.net
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Simple Fix - remove run off areas on ALL chicanes....

Then see who cuts them!

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2013 - Nando must come through..

!00 % agree with that.

casabonka Wrote:
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> Simple Fix - remove run off areas on ALL
> chicanes....
>
> Then see who cuts them!

:D

Slash, that argument is just funny. I'm not going to say you're right or wrong, but the way you argue your point is worse than most of the fanboys crying foul play.



sasjag Wrote:
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> I still don't accept this penalty. Lewis had gone
> from being alongside, to ahead due to cutting a
> chicane. he then allowed Kimi to overtake him (or
> was overtaken by Kimi). Kimi then went defensive
> into T1 and Lewis retook him. I understand the
> view that the way Lewis gave the place back
> allowed him to gain an advantage, although i dont
> necessarily agree, but it cannot be denied that
> the place was given back.

It's not that he's further behind from the moment he left the track, it's how much further behind he would have been had he attempted to stick to the race track. He wouldn't have been in a position to make a move in turn 1 had he braked in the chicane rather than turn left.

gav Wrote:
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> It's not that he's further behind from the moment
> he left the track, it's how much further behind he
> would have been had he attempted to stick to the
> race track. He wouldn't have been in a position to
> make a move in turn 1 had he braked in the chicane
> rather than turn left.

I can see where your coming from with that, but the one thing that dosn't really make sense to me is that if it is as clear cut as you say there, why did Charlie Whiting tell McLaren they had done enough to avoid a penalty? I mean that coming from the FIA's own Race Director who has 40 odd years F1 experience and 11 years experience of been Race Director, it seems hard to think that he would get something simple in the rules wrong, like not backing off enough when cutting the corner results in a penalty?


PSN/Xbox 360 ID - Ianwoollam



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2008 11:28AM by Ianwoollam.