Bahrain Grand Prix 6th April ***SPOILERS***

I did a bit of research today 'coz I was bored watching the race. After returning from every single commercial break in the ITV coverage, the words "Lewis" and/or "Hamilton" were in the first sentence every time. This, regardless of the fact that he did sod all in that race except n00b up against Alonso's rear wing. (BTW he didn't lift off, he was taking a defensive line out of the corner, of course he was going to be slower than usual).

The first 10 laps were great, but then I didn't enjoy it much... there were no battles in the final third except Barrichello and Alonso for 10th place...

Good result though! We have a Championship battle, at least at the moment! I'm really hoping Kimi doesn't start to run away with it, and this win for Massa with the Sauber cars so close behind gives me hope.

P.S. I REALLY should get round to changing my sig.

---

K*bots UK, specialist providers of 'fun science' Curriculum Enhancement days for Primary and Secondary schools in Britain.
Please find us on [en.wikipedia.org] for more information.

Locke Cole Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> P.S. I REALLY should get round to changing my sig.

Yup.

Not much to say here...disasterous race tbh. Bring on Spain.

All alonso has said is the speed difference was alot and that is why lewis hit him. They were also like that on the 1st lap there was not a great speed difference then was there! There was no missed gear or gear shift problems. Must say though alonso done well with that rear wing damage.

You know all the time I have been watching F1 i have only see that happen a few times and all have been caused by someone missing gear or someone breaking early etc.

Never ever seen anything like today when 2 cars are meant to be on full accelation.

Anyway its done now must move on.

At least after 3 races we have had 3 different winners so its good for the championhip. If mclaren want to fight for it they need to work on the car big time as BMW have the upper hand now. Ferrari are in a world of their own.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2008 04:42PM by marcl.

I am wondering where the Massa-bashers are now? In a earlier gp thread i posted that Massa could win this one, so his position would be steadier again, but a lot of people thought he would be fired or something anyway, winning races or not.

And all i read now is "Well done Massa", "Great race from Massa" and so on. Are those all different people, or just people who changed their minds about him, because he won one race?

________________________________________

Some say... he's even smaller than 20kb.
And some say... he's so offensive he could get you into trouble...
The only thing we know is that he's called...

THE SIG


Felipe Massa, World Champion 15:34:11pm- 15:34:21pm.

marcl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You know all the time I have been watching F1 i
> have only see that happen a few times and all have
> been caused by someone missing gear or someone
> breaking early etc.

If someone comes out of a corner faster, is in the slipstream and follows the path of the car ahead without backing off, nothing else can happen but an accident.

Had Alonso retired because of that (and I originally thought it was Alonso who had spun off 4 corners later) I wouldn't have been surprised to see Hamilton docked places on the Spanish grid for causing an avoidable accident. It may have been harsh, but he clearly let the heat of the moment, and possibly last year, get to him. It was a rookie error.

Sapo get used to it lol

The video is now on the ITV website.

I dont agree with you at all. Yes lewis got a run on him and was moving to the right to pass him alonso was moving slowly to the right to block the move but then what the hell happened it was like lewis gained a load of speed at that speed the slip stream would not have that affect and road up alonso back, it just does not happen. Lewis lost the front wing on alonso left wheel but then lewis would have backed off so why did he keep climbing alonso if alonso was on full power.

Its not as clear cut as you are making out. If I had thought it was lewis fault i would have said stupid error but i just dont this is as simple as that and they need to look at it. Its not the 1st time alonso has carried out a break test/slow down on another car I guess thats why I think he done it this time. Maybe I am just thinking the worst but it just does seem normal to me.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2008 05:14PM by marcl.

marcl schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sapo get used to it lol


Guess your right.

Let's bash someone else then

________________________________________

Some say... he's even smaller than 20kb.
And some say... he's so offensive he could get you into trouble...
The only thing we know is that he's called...

THE SIG


Felipe Massa, World Champion 15:34:11pm- 15:34:21pm.

Great job Massa, nailed the start and was never headed. I was hoping Kubica would do it but it was another...Oh well, should have known.

Without replays, Alonso looked well within his rights. He's an old campaigner compared to Hamilton who may have had the speed advantage out of turn 3 but got too hot on the application.

Love it that BMW is leading the TC. Still early days but it looks like a 3 way challenge in the making. Barcy can't come soon enough.

Sapo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am wondering where the Massa-bashers are now? In
> a earlier gp thread i posted that Massa could win
> this one, so his position would be steadier again,
> but a lot of people thought he would be fired or
> something anyway, winning races or not.

I for one did not expect Felipe do to have such a strong race so his performance surprised me however i must say that Kimi was seemingly off the pace he showed in the previous 2 GPs. Hopefully Felipe will have no more brain fades on race day from now on and mount a proper challenge for the Championship.

"Its not as clear cut as you are making out. If I had thought it was lewis fault i would have said stupid error but i just dont this is as simple as that and they need to look at it. Its not the 1st time alonso has carried out a break test/slow down on another car I guess thats why I think he done it this time. Maybe I am just thinking the worst but it just does seem normal to me."

Well marc you are not particularly objective as far as Fernando is concerened so i'm not surprised that you think it's all his fault.

Sapo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am wondering where the Massa-bashers are now? In
> a earlier gp thread i posted that Massa could win
> this one, so his position would be steadier again,
> but a lot of people thought he would be fired or
> something anyway, winning races or not.
>
> And all i read now is "Well done Massa", "Great
> race from Massa" and so on. Are those all
> different people, or just people who changed their
> minds about him, because he won one race?

I was not impressed at all with his race in Bahrain. When you watch the race with live timing on and pay attention to lap times, his pace was rubbish. He would do a fast lap in one spot and then a slower one after, making for very inconsistent racing. Kimi and Kubica were a lot steadier than him. Fact is Kimi was faster than him on the first two stints, but having started 4th, it was hard to catch up, and he had some trouble with Nakajima at one point too...dunno why they didn't punish the dude actually.

I understand that for Ferrari it was good to have Felipe win this race, because it takes off some of the pressure from them, but I hope things turn around again in Spain and Kimi wins the race.

As for the GP itself, Nick asked why I thought it was good. First, I enjoy the track, much like I enjoy Sepang too. Second, there were some pretty cool battles during the race which makes things interesting. The incident with Hamilton was great, specially reading the comments here and seeing all the Lewis supporters getting so edgy about it :D Alonso is definitely a new character after getting back to Renault, and I've been enjoying his races and comments this season. And then, of course, being a Kimi supporter I was paying attention all the way to his lap times hoping he could catch Massa. Didn't happen, but 2nd place with no points for Lewis is a pretty good outcome from this race, and seeing Kimi lead the championship on the third race is refreshing, heh. If things were my way, Massa would've finished 9th Not a Ferrari supporter. Oh, and BMW finishing so well made things cool too. Heidfeld did a cracking race!

Sapo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am wondering where the Massa-bashers are now? In
> a earlier gp thread i posted that Massa could win
> this one, so his position would be steadier again,
> but a lot of people thought he would be fired or
> something anyway, winning races or not.
>
> And all i read now is "Well done Massa", "Great
> race from Massa" and so on. Are those all
> different people, or just people who changed their
> minds about him, because he won one race?


I'm one of them. I'm still here and still don't think he is championship or top seat material.

But I have to give credit when it's due. He did what he needed to win a race, to get out in front and not be racing with anyone.

Had he been stuck behind Kubica, it might have been a bit more exciting and difficult for him. A team mate chasing behind is not really thesame as a Mclaren racing for position.

But he did an excellent start and made it stick. He was also consistently faster than Kimi with heavier fuel load. So, great work from him in this GP.

Sapo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am wondering where the Massa-bashers are now? In
> a earlier gp thread i posted that Massa could win
> this one, so his position would be steadier again,
> but a lot of people thought he would be fired or
> something anyway, winning races or not.
>
> And all i read now is "Well done Massa", "Great
> race from Massa" and so on. Are those all
> different people, or just people who changed their
> minds about him, because he won one race?


Predicting he COULD win this one means you were probably only slightly more inspired than the Massa bashers.

What the Massa bashers may have been saying is that he SHOULD have been a lot closer to winning the first two, which is, admittedly, the privelege of having a big mouth after the event, plus the reasonable expectation of getting more than crap out of the alleged Cream of Massa. Got a big dollop from Bahrain, but the basher's questions remain.

Can you say... brake test?! Alonso's been caught out with that before (Hungary 2006), so I'd expect him to be dragged before the stewards again. Certainly the telemetry needs examining and comparing.

Kubica: what the hell happened to him at the start?! 3rd in the end, so good result from him. 2 podiums in 3 races, and in the hunt already.

Hamilton: what the f**k... I know these quick-shift gearboxes are quite fragile at times, but did he actually select 1st on the grid or not?! Cos he just didn't get away....

Heidfeld: good result from him, and from what I saw from his second stint, he had rather a lot of fuel on board, but not quite the pace of the Ferraris.

Coulthard and Button: 50/50 on that one. Coulthard turned in defensively, but Jenson went for a gap that wasn't really there.

Everyone else: can't comment until I see the highlights this evening, cos my flatmates decided they wanted to watch the footie instead!

What happened to Piquet? He was running quite strongly.

---

Everyone knows that million-to-one chances happen 9 times out of 10; indeed, it's a common requirement in fairy tales. If the human didn't have to overcome huge odds, what would be the point? Terry Pratchett - The Science Of Discworld

GPGSL S5 Race driver for IED.

I agree with what u are saying mike. Maybe I am looking at it wrong and maybe alonso is totally correct in what happened. I just dont think so i have watched the replay over and over and its just not right the speed difference is just to great. But if i am wrong then i will hold up my hands and say i am wrong like i have in the passed. But if i am right will others admit they are wrong, probably not as i have seen in the passed.

As much as me saying its alonso other are saying it lewis just because they dont like him and want to see him crash so they are very happy he did. I was hoping to see a good race with him flighting his way back from 10th but this did not happen.

Well lewis has now said just a racing incident that they both went to the right so fair enough I am wrong then.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2008 05:45PM by marcl.

turkey_machine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can you say... brake test?! Alonso's been caught
> out with that before (Hungary 2006), so I'd expect
> him to be dragged before the stewards again.
> Certainly the telemetry needs examining and
> comparing.

I'm all for that as I'm 100% certain Alonso did absolutely nothing wrong with his throttle or brake. Steering wheel is more open to debate, but there's not way on earth he could back off like 2% or something - it would just seem he'd slammed the brakes on at that speed, and it's clear on the replay that isn't the case

Neither did he touch the brake pedal, as he'd just come through the heaviest braking zone on the track and they'd still be at or near perfect operating temperature, so again it would seem he'd slammed the pedal down at that speed if he so much as touched it.

Those who are suggesting he did either of the above clearly haven't stopped to think how he'd have gone about it while only scrubbing off a teeny percentage of acceleration rate. Unless he changed the engine mapping coming out of the corner, I can't think of any way he could do it without Hamilton slamming into him, which he just didn't do.

@Marcl: little slipstream effect at 130+mph?

Some quotes from Lewis...

"I messed up at the start as I didn’t hit the switch early enough and therefore had not engaged the correct engine setting, and the anti stall kicked in."

"Then I had the incident with Fernando. I was behind him, and I moved to the right, and he moved to the right and that was it – a racing incident I guess."

[en.f1-live.com]

Joe_Satriani Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I was not impressed at all with his race in
> Bahrain. When you watch the race with live timing
> on and pay attention to lap times, his pace was
> rubbish. He would do a fast lap in one spot and
> then a slower one after, making for very
> inconsistent racing. Kimi and Kubica were a lot
> steadier than him. Fact is Kimi was faster than
> him on the first two stints, but having started
> 4th, it was hard to catch up, and he had some
> trouble with Nakajima at one point too...dunno why
> they didn't punish the dude actually.
>
> I understand that for Ferrari it was good to have
> Felipe win this race, because it takes off some of
> the pressure from them, but I hope things turn
> around again in Spain and Kimi wins the race.
>
> As for the GP itself, Nick asked why I thought it
> was good. First, I enjoy the track, much like I
> enjoy Sepang too. Second, there were some pretty
> cool battles during the race which makes things
> interesting. The incident with Hamilton was great,
> specially reading the comments here and seeing all
> the Lewis supporters getting so edgy about it :D
> Alonso is definitely a new character after getting
> back to Renault, and I've been enjoying his races
> and comments this season. And then, of course,
> being a Kimi supporter I was paying attention all
> the way to his lap times hoping he could catch
> Massa. Didn't happen, but 2nd place with no points
> for Lewis is a pretty good outcome from this race,
> and seeing Kimi lead the championship on the third
> race is refreshing, heh. If things were my way,
> Massa would've finished 9th Not a Ferrari
> supporter. Oh, and BMW finishing so well made
> things cool too. Heidfeld did a cracking race!

I can't seem to understand why Kimi fan boys are so biased. It's like they HAVE to bash all of his teammates and give excuses to everything. Be more reasonable guys, kimi is fast (yeah we know) but not the absolute best, it's ok if he doesn't win all races, you don't have to make it up for him throwing stuff like "Massa would do a fast lap in one spot and then a slower one after, making for very inconsistent racing. Kimi and Kubica were a lot steadier than him..".. honestly who cares? he won the race, thats all that matters.

IMO I think that eventually Kimi will win the championship this year but it's just oh so annoying when you (kimi fan boys) say stuff like "Kimi had obviously more fuel in qualifying than X teammate", "Kimi backed off after 2 laps to cool down the engine", "Kimi pulled the fastest lap of the race with 2 laps remaining so he's the best driver in the world" "Kimi's X teammate is horrible".

Nothing personally against you Satriani (just took your comment as example), I do agree with the rest of your comments.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2008 05:51PM by RonnyF1.

Sapo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am wondering where the Massa-bashers are now? In
> a earlier gp thread i posted that Massa could win
> this one, so his position would be steadier again,
> but a lot of people thought he would be fired or
> something anyway, winning races or not.
>
> And all i read now is "Well done Massa", "Great
> race from Massa" and so on. Are those all
> different people, or just people who changed their
> minds about him, because he won one race?


I don't think people have changed their opinions, but credit where it's due eh, he was under pressure and he won the race with no mistakes, I don't like nor rate the guy hugely but he did it so, kudos.

marcl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is no way there is the speed difference at
> the corner unless someone comes off the power
> simple as that. Not even against fissi did lewis
> close in like that. Its a full accelation part of
> the track and the difference between the mclaren
> and renault is not that.
>
> Had that been the other way round u lot would say
> lewis backed off!
>
> And peole went mad when ms done that and the same
> in silverstone but as its alonso its ok.
>
> I hope the truth comes out.
>
> Dont know why i bother anymore tbh

Alonso: "Oh that @#!(@* Lewis is behind me, I will slow down and move over blatantly so he hits me and I end his race, but I somehow know that my car will be totally fine after it. Joder tio, soy la ostia!"

sure, why not?

Why would Alonso brake test Hamilton anyway? He wouldnt want to ruin his own race. And had his rear wing broke, it would have taken much longetr to fix than Hamiltons front wing. The rate of collision was definately not great enough to be caused by Alonso touching the brakes anyway.

The tabloids will obviously latch onto this though and call for a lifetime ban for Alonso.


marcl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its not as clear cut as you are making out. If I
> had thought it was lewis fault i would have said
> stupid error but i just dont this is as simple as
> that and they need to look at it. Its not the 1st
> time alonso has carried out a break test/slow down
> on another car I guess thats why I think he done
> it this time. Maybe I am just thinking the worst
> but it just does seem normal to me.


There was never any proof that Alonso brake tested DC at Nurgburgring. He was on very worn tires. You say as if its proven fact that Alonso is a serial brake tester and base your argument on this.

---