Bahrain Grand Prix 6th April ***SPOILERS***

Your relating this to road going cars...

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2008 03:35PM by chet.

And that is what the previous relevant posts were referring to. Unless those posters happened to drive F1 cars, then their preference to being in a crash, and any discussion of frontal impact safety, is with respect to road cars.

Im guessing sasjag's comment was for Lewis's crash.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

You're also ignoring the fact that Sim studied motorsport engineering (or something along those lines). He's got a lot more knowledge in this field than most of the forum put together.

Yes autogyro, different constructions and designs of materials have different properties under different stresses, be they prolonged or sudden, of which composites are of course much more susceptible to failure under loads, individually, they weren't designed for than that of most metals, but the side-impact tests are in place almost exclusively to test this sort of crash, so those impact-absorbent structures are there to safe-guard a driver in side-on collisions.

You undermine your own argument by using steel as a example. Comparing side-impacts in those closed-cockpit cars has no relevance here, both because of the use of steel vs composites and more importantly the lack of a tub in such cars. Any roll-cage can be rendered useless in any given impact. I'd go as far as arguing a composite tub is safer in any directional impact, until secondary impacts are taken into account.

//edit: I keep looking at Sato's crash and still haven't decided if the right rear suspension collapses before it spins. Everything suggests otherwise, but in one of the replay shots it does look as though it rotates towards the rear of the car slightly. It could just be the camber deceiving me. I'm staggered they red-flagged the session. I'm mildly surprised they continued to show yellows. I know if 1 car can crash, so can another, but still - any impact would have been at 30-40mph tops maybe, and they didn't need to keep marshals in the firing line.

Nice to see a BMW on pole, but I can't help but feel it's just another Melbourne with a car optimised entirely for qualifying that will just fail miserably in the race. Kimi looks very, very heavy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2008 04:41PM by gav.

sorry for not making myself clear, i was referring to F1 cars/open wheelers in general, as they generally have stringent side impact tests, especially when related to tin tops.

i still stand by my previous posts, and as gav mentioned i studied motorsports engineering, and indeed designed the frontal impact attenuator for teh FS07 car, which is why i know it would be more preferable for a side impact

Sim

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All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!

"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole

I can see the point you're trying to make, but I'm not trying to argue between a F1 monocoque vs a road car or that a vehicle's entire structural strength is governed by its bare chassis (which of course, it is not). My purpose is to bring to light the fact that the statement that a side impact is better purely because of a larger surface area to absorb impact is misleading and that other factors should be considered. I'd hate to think that it might give the impression that it's safer to go side swipe a street light at 50 km/hr than to run into it head on.

EDIT: Based on the assumption that the conversation was about road cars, which it appears it is not. Which I guess makes my last 30 minutes a waste of typing :D



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2008 05:04PM by autogyro.

Briere Wrote:
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> KOO-BEE-KAH !


it pronounced Ku-BI-tsa

Good session very close.

Kimi must be heavy and massa recons alonso cost him pole on the 2nd run and nico cost him time on the 1st run. if the guys are also on quali laps its tough luck really.

Good pole by Kubica its been on the cards now since the 1st race.

The start should be fun both massa and kimi starting on the dirty side hope they all get through the 1st turn



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2008 05:28PM by marcl.

I'm happy for Kubica, but unfortunately I don't think he will win this race. Nor will Massa win this race. He's only won races he started from pole, and he hasn't won all the races that he started from pole.

[sarcasm]Maybe his car will "feel strange" tomorrow again.[/sarcasm]

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Um dois três quatro cinco seis sete oito nove dez
Eins zwei drei vier fünf sechs sieben acht neun zehn
One two three four five six seven eight nine ten
Один два три четыре пять шесть семь восемь девять десять



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2008 05:49PM by Lex.

Lex Wrote:
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Nor will Massa win
> this race. He's only won races he started from
> pole, and he hasn't won all the races that he
> started from pole.
>
> Maybe his car will "feel strange" tomorrow again.

Lol, that's so true. Almost as cliché as Jenson's "the solution to every problem is more front wing" 2006 season.

Go Kubica!

This has been coming for a while.

A Pole on pole...

Hehe a pole on Pole...

Good qualy from aspects tbh, it was a bit more entertaining than the ones we have before

A shocking decision IMO not to penalise Massa for ignoring a yellow flag. If one car can crash in a certain location then so can another, putting marshalls lives at risk. Should make other decisions like this interesting....

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bestobritish Wrote:
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> A shocking decision IMO not to penalise Massa for
> ignoring a yellow flag. If one car can crash in a
> certain location then so can another, putting
> marshalls lives at risk. Should make other
> decisions like this interesting....


The flag was on the straight, not before the last corner, he'd already done the entire sector, what's to penalize?

the onboard clearly showed the flags as he exited the final turn... maybe he should have backed off a little.. i mean sat down low in the car, for all he knew their could have been a lump of carbon fibre and he could have ran over punctured his tyre, and crashed...

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

Well, if Massa is penalized... What can the FIA do? Lose 5 positions in grid, 10 positions...? Sometime was a similar case?

chet Wrote:
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> the onboard clearly showed the flags as he exited
> the final turn... maybe he should have backed off
> a little.. i mean sat down low in the car, for all
> he knew their could have been a lump of carbon
> fibre and he could have ran over punctured his
> tyre, and crashed...

The point being made is that the flag zone started when he'd already exited the corner. Of course, the flag zone itself started exactly where Sato's car hit the barrier, so you could argue it was still dangerous, but from a regulatory point of view, he'd exited the corner when he entered the danger zone. It would be extremely harsh to penalise him for that when in the past precedent has been well and truly set on ignoring such cases (Kimi at Spa in 2002 or 2003 comes immediately to mind).

There was indeed, Frantic.

In 1997, Jacques Villenueve was disqualified from the Japanese Grand Prix for ignoring yellow flags. However, he had a suspended sentence from earlier in the season.

In the days of today, it would probably be a 5-place grid penalty.

I honestly think it's shocking, as this decision could be set as a precedent for incidents to come.

it could be it´s true... but is a shame that the FIA take care of some drivers (Hamilton, Hamilton and....Hamilton ) and not penalize them but with other drivers the FIA apply sanction for the same issue

there wasnt any point in penalizing Felipe either way, he must've been told on the radio that taku's lost it and is in the barrier of pitlane. He was well away from Taku anyway so he could floor it