Hungarian Grand Prix **SPOILERS**

That article reeks of bull manure.

mikef1 Wrote:
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> That article reeks of bull manure.


Maybe so...

Prooving that two number 1s wont work...

And Mclaren is a team who can support two number 1's.

Because of all whats happened I more so want Alonso to win, Turkey will be key. If Lewis wins, then tbh I think for Alonso the championship will be tough...

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

I can't imagine if lewis won the championship, we wouldnt hear the end of it till the next championship finishes.

Muks_C Wrote:
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> no, i don't agree with you Marcl. the FIA had to
> intervene because after Monza last year, they
> clarified that anyone judged to have deliberately
> held up another competitor during qualifying will
> be penalised.
>
> and from what we saw, Alonso deliberately held up
> Hamilton.
>
> the fact that it was his own teammate that
> suffered doesn't even come into it.
>
> what Alonso did is exactly the same as blocking
> someone on-track who is trying to do a qualli lap,
> you've ruined their lap. Alonso stopped Lewis from
> even attempting his lap.


You're as bad as ITV... assuming guilt, despite the fact that Ron Dennis, Fernando Alonso AND Nando's race engineer all said that it was a sequential problem triggered by Lewis. The FIA have no right to reject this evidence and make up their own minds anyway.

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The last 2 years i've rather liked alonso but this season i've lost a lot of respect for him, he's done nothing but throw his toys out of the pram when things don't go his way.
He hasn't got the doormat for a team mate he was expecting, and boy does he want the world to know he's not happy about it.

You answer people by your actions on the track, not by moaning to the press every 5 minutes.

what hamilton did on saturday was stupid, if your team boss tells you to do something, you do it. he will be fined by the team and rightly so. He's cost them dearly in the constructors championship.
You could see from his sheepish mood in the interview with Steve Rider that Ron had had a right go at him.

However what Alonso did was plain childish, idiotic and potentially dangerous. As soon as qualifing had finished i felt the stewards would get invloved.

That behaviour does not befit a 2 time world champion.

the place drop was entierly justified as fisi got the same penalty for deliberatly holding up one of the spikers

I think the loss of constructors points was a bit harsh but i can see why they did it. Mclaren are in the end responsible for the actions of their employees(where've we heard that one before ), and both their drivers made a mockery of qualifing.

if things carry on like this (and if that ultimateum article is true) I can seriously see alonso running off crying back to renault at the end of the season,
Ron Dennis is not a man to be held to ransom.

it seem to me that this golden boy attitude has gone to hamilton's head. he feels he is untouchable and can do no wrong.

alonso is naturally a bit upset things have not gone so smoothly for him, he has a tough fight with his own team mate and has not become clear number one he had hoped to. and he is openly showing his displeasure.e

this will be a tough situation for dennis and along with the stolen documents saga, seems to be very stressful situation at mclaren. not to mention world championship on the line.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2007 06:49PM by Astro.

"However what Alonso did was plain childish, idiotic and potentially dangerous. As soon as qualifing had finished i felt the stewards would get invloved.

What the hell did Fernando do that was potentially dangerous!?

"The FIA have no right to reject this evidence and make up their own minds anyway."

Are you serious? Maybe Hamilton also pissed in Alonso's cornflakes that morning and the FIA need to consider this as well?

Fact is Dennis, Alonso who you have great affection for and his race engineer couldn't produce a convincing explanation for what went on during those 30 seconds after the tyre change. FIA has every right and reason to ignore the red herring about the order of cars on the track.

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I am of the opinion that Alonso will be at Renault next year, its been easy to tell all year that he hasn't been happy at McLaren. He seems a different character to what he was last year.

If Alonso does leave, where does this leave the driver market? It will explode into action, the only driver I can see actually jumping ship is Button, but will McLaren want two englishman in the team? And will they even want Button? Ron Dennis recently described half the field as "useless" and Button's performances this year haven't been all that stellar. But we've seen how he performs when he gets a good car. Rosberg and Heidfeld could also be contenders, but I believe that Rosberg would be considered too young with Hamilton already there.

Or howabout a Raikkonen, Alonso swap?

A part of me actually wants Alonso to go back to Renault, just to unlock the driver market.

All the above is speculation of course, as Alonso probably won't leave McLaren.

_____________________________________________________________________________

Wow, Dennis is sure flexible enough to put his foot in the mouth with that "useless" comment.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2007 07:25PM by tripleM.

Locke Cole schreef:
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> You're as bad as ITV... assuming guilt, despite
> the fact that Ron Dennis, Fernando Alonso AND
> Nando's race engineer all said that it was a
> sequential problem triggered by Lewis. The FIA
> have no right to reject this evidence and make up
> their own minds anyway.

Fact is that the FIA can't punish for ignoring teamorders, but they can punish for deliberately blocking someone in qualifying, which they did.

And I get the impression that you're claiming that if Hamilton had obeyed his team orders, nothing of this had happened. I'd love to see your argument then for Alonso waiting that long.

Dude, you're missing the point that there are certain "fair" people who are ready to shout how "guilty until proven innocent mentality" is unhealthy and demand nearly 100% proof despite previously throwing others under the bus with no mention of due process and the like simply because of their personal preference.

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marwood82 Wrote:
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> The last 2 years i've rather liked alonso but this
> season i've lost a lot of respect for him, he's
> done nothing but throw his toys out of the pram
> when things don't go his way.
> He hasn't got the doormat for a team mate he was
> expecting, and boy does he want the world to know
> he's not happy about it.

Interestingly enough, the last two years I've never really liked Alonso, and this year I have gained a lot of respect for him. He had it easy on his first championship IMO, and I didn't really rate him high. Towards the end of 2006, he did some great races, including the one in Turkey, and this year he has been really showing a good quality, although it's interesting how he is prone to errors when he needs to perform, something that Raikkonen always pulled off with relative ease. Anyway, I don't think the punishment he got was very fair TBH. McLaren as a whole created the situation and so the entire team should suffer for it, and not just Alonso. I would've dropped both drivers 5 places or none at all.

I am not sure if he'll leave McLaren, but it's a certain possibility. Some teams are just not made for some drivers, and Alonso needs a team that'll back him 100%. I can only see him going back to Renault if he does move. I doubt BMW will really hire him, as they got a good pairing of drivers already for next year.

there is only 1 number 1 and thats the leader in the World Championship in my opinion and thats Lewis right now

There is another thread opened to discuss alonso - lewis feud and possible driver changes so move there. please.

Locke Cole Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're as bad as ITV... assuming guilt, despite
> the fact that Ron Dennis, Fernando Alonso AND
> Nando's race engineer all said that it was a
> sequential problem triggered by Lewis. The FIA
> have no right to reject this evidence and make up
> their own minds anyway.


not at all, i'm just not naive enough to believe the "car order" excuse for what went on and lead to Alonso acting up.

of course Alonso, Ron and whoever else in McLaren are going to say stuff that doesn't accuse Alonso of dirty tricks, they're hardly going to point the finger of blame at him, are they?

Ron's explanation was all a smokescreen to make it looks like a procedural error, in the hope the FIA would not intervene. unfortunately for Ron and Fernando, they didn't buy it, the same as i don't buy it.

Lewis may have disobeyed team orders, which he would no doubt be reprimanded for by Ron later, but that was no excuse for Alonso to do what he did, which was a direct retaliation for Hamilton not letting him past, plain and simple.

how stupid would Alonso's race engineer have to be to hold his driver in the pitbox when his own teammate is sat right behind him needing a tyre-change, in the last 2 minutes of a very important qualifying session? very very stupid indeed, which i don't believe he is, which is why the story of his engineer holding him back to rejoin in clear air is complete BS. they may be rivals in the team, but Alonso's race engineer wouldn't make his driver do something that would so obviously hinder his driver's teammate.

Ron would be able to hear the radio traffic, so he would have heard Alonso's engineer telling him to stay in the pitbox. if Ron knew this, why was he so angry immediately after, throwing his headphones down and then walking to Alonso's trainer and marching him down the pitlane? answer is he was as bemused at it as the rest of us, it was nothing procedural like Alonso and Ron are trying to make us believe.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

brnco Wrote:
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> There is another thread opened to discuss alonso -
> lewis feud and possible driver changes so move
> there. please.


No, and I won't go to you to have my teeth done either...


Back on topic it's all rubbish saying Alonso was potencially dangerous and stuff, and IF that's true that Hamilton refused to give the fuel or whatever advantage to Alonso when he refused to do what the team told him to do, which changes between them from race to race, then there's the question that who the f*** does he consider himself??!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2007 10:59PM by pankykapus.

Muks_C Wrote:
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> Ron would be able to hear the radio traffic, so he
> would have heard Alonso's engineer telling him to
> stay in the pitbox. if Ron knew this, why was he
> so angry immediately after, throwing his
> headphones down and then walking to Alonso's
> trainer and marching him down the pitlane? answer
> is he was as bemused at it as the rest of us, it
> was nothing procedural like Alonso and Ron are
> trying to make us believe.

I've read in a spanish newspaper that Ron was furious at that moment with Hamilton cause he was saying 'F*ck off' to him, not because Alonso. And Alonso was really angry with Ron after the qualy cause this time was the one for him to get 1 extra lap in qualy, but instead he did get used tyres and couldnt get the extra lap.

I've heard in the radio, a FIA stewart (Verdegay) that has spoken with Alonso in private has said that McLaren had to use used tyres cause the good ones hadnt the adequate pression. It was a 'rare' mistake.

When I read the english papers version is just the other way, supporting Hamilton and saying Alonso is dirty. I'm sure many of you just read one side of the story.

Another thing Alonso said in TV, was that Hamilton and Ron didnt talk to each other after the qualy, and Ron is very angry with Hamilton. He said he was waiting 10 extra seconds in the pitstop because of the tyres, he wasnt happy with the used tyres in order to get a fast lap. And finally he said that he never had seen a driver who talk against his team (losing points for the team) and provoke FIA investigations like Hamilton did at Monaco and Hungary.

McLaren changed the way their drivers should approach to Q3 after Monaco, having the same qualy fuel, this way harming the slower driver in 1 lap in the race against the other teams. This happened because the Monaco affair, and specially thanks to english press who put pressure on Ron.

Lewis is benefitting many races of the year with the one extra lap in qualy, he goes out in qualy the first of the two quite often. It's clear, that he benefits a bit of that (not much, but maybe 1 tenth) and Alonso hasnt said anything about that. This time was Alonso's turn to get it, and he wanted to get it, cause probably was going to get pole and victory and therefore the leadership of the WDC. But Hamilton didnt want Alonso to get the extra lap. WHY???

My personal opinion, maybe biased because I'm spanish and Alonso fan is that, first of all, Alonso is not treated the same way that Hamilton. Alonso hasnt the british press putting presure on Ron, hasnt had the extra lap in many races, has had the tyre pressures wrong in qualy, but he never has said to Ron 'F*ck off'. So, I think many of you shouldn't think soo bad about Alonso, and dont follow the english press cause is biased like hell.

the team is not very equal if they are giving one of their drivers 1 more laps of fuel in Q3, are they?

yes it's not fair that Lewis has the advantage in some races, then Alonso gets that fuel advatnage in another race, they keep going on about equality, but their own system is unequal to begin with.

I doubt Lewis told Ron to F-off while he was driving in qualli, that argument must have been later on when they all had a meeting.

Ron was clearly upset with Alonso's trainer, that had nothing to do with what Lewis may have said to him on the radio. Ron's reaction was to Alonso sitting in the pitbox, IMO.

of course in Spanish newspapers they will make it all look like Lewis' fault, and in English newspapers they will make it look like Alonso's fault, but i really do think Ron's anger was towards Alonso's action, and Alonso's delay was a definite attempt to disadvantage Hamilton.

I'm not calling him a cheat, but it wasn't a fair thing to do and not something a 2x champion should need to do. Lewis disobeyed team orders so would have got told off in private, there was no reason for Alonso to make his own punishment for Hamilton.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

not potentially dangerous? are you having a laugh? what about the mechanics?

the lollypop went up(telling him to go) and he didn't move.

at the end of the day the opinion of the only people that matter in all of this(the race stewards) was that alonso deliberatly impeded hamilton(hence the penalty).

ie he or his race engineer were the only people who knew what was going on.(i think ron's reaction after qualifing ended also gives a bit of weight to this)

They came to this conclusion after having looked at mclarens alternative explanation and then rejecting it. So from what i can see, there is no argument it was deliberate.

therefore we have to asume that the majority of people involved in those pit stops were expecting alonso to leave straight away.

how was this dangerous?,ok here's a scenario for you,

hamiltons race engineer, (or hamilton himself) are looking to the lollypop man as the signal that alonso is leaving the pit box. (remember when they held him for ages in the previous stop the lollypop stayed down till he left)

lollypop goes up, everyone expects alonso to move, hamilton or his engineer see it and hamilton moves forward(anticipating alonso's exit as they know time is short). BANG straight into the back of alonso firing the car at the mechanics that are still kneeling around it. probably resulting in a few trips to hospital?

may sound far fetched to some, but in the wound up state both of them were clearly in on saturday it could easily have happend.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2007 01:54AM by marwood82.