Italian GP - Monza - Official Thread **SPOILERS**

Morbid Wrote:
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> 1) I did not call you a jerk. Nor am I calling you stupid. I said
> "stop being a dork".

Well then you should know the meaning of a word before you use it:

dork  /dɔrk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[dawrk] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun Slang.
1. a stupid or ridiculous person; jerk; nerd.

> 2) I am not an admin, I am a mod.
Your supposed to set an example. You told someone off for calling Alonso Dave's boyfriend...

> 3) I am neither admining or moderating you. You will know when I am.
Not sure what thats supposed to mean...

> 4) I don't care.
So now after making a fuss about my post, you don't care? Maybe take care next time in reading posts which are actually aimed at you rather than ... well tbh I don't quite frankly know what you were reading. The way this forum works when you quote it's not hard to miss the persons post that is quoted...

So before you go on at me about twisting words check yours


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
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www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:

I refuse to be dragged down into something like this. If you have a problem send me a PM. Otherwise, stay on topic, and off my person.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

Muks_C Wrote:
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> Kieran wrote: "The way Schumacher got off with cutting the chicane and
> then continuing to impend Alonso under blue flags, ironic that!"
>
> when was this?

Hungary GP. If I can remember rightly Fernando came to lap Schumacher into T4/5 and Schumacher defended the inside line and didn't yield. I can't remember if he actually yielded or Alonso just passed him on his own...

Keiran


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:

EDIT: I told you to send me a PM if you had a problem and to stay on topic. You didn't, so consider yourself moderated. -Morbid


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2006 12:11AM by Morbid.

Keiran, the way i've read this quote:

"I refuse to be dragged down into something like this. If you have a problem send me a PM. Otherwise, stay on topic, and off my person",

is that Morbid isn't saying he's being dragged down to "your level", implying you are beneath him, but that he is saying he doesn't want to be dragged into this argument here.

a bit of miss-reading on your part also

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2006 10:44AM by Muks_C.

He can live without the money, no doubt about it. I am saying that under penalty of hypocrisy, he has to leave.

No, he does not. Cant he stay for the joy of driving the cars, rather than the competition?

And why should be pay millions to get out a contract? Which wont work anyway because Ron is famous for enforcing contracts, which he has every right to do. JPM is on the reciving end of that right now. You think he'll let Alonso out? Not a chance, it'd go to court. Is it even worth the hassel when you could just play out the contract? By which time Max Mosely will have left his position in the FIA anyway, and by then the stewards responsible will have most liekly out lived there positions and have been replaced.

This is why he comment is ridiculous. It is said in anger, and I am pretty sure that his actions will show that.

It was said twice. Once on Sunday morning in a Renault press conference, and again in a live interview on ITV, i think just before the race. Neither were off the cuff moments that were said on spur of the moment. He had time to think about it, twice, and after the first one, clearly had no regrets, and said it again.

I am not challenging your opinion on the other points because we will just end up agreeing to disagree, but the suggestion he should, or even could leave right now is just absurd. Its not possible, simple as that.

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It is so possible. It is just very inconvenient and quite expensive.

But I will give you, yeah, he could stay to enjoy driving the cars... I hadn't thought about that. But if he has to be authentic about it, it would create some rather weird situations don't you think, and certainly very lack-lustre performance, no?

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2006 12:18AM by Morbid.

Yup. I wont/cant deny that. If he doesnt want to compete, just drive, it would end up with bad performances.

But at the same time, Johnny Herbert loved competing with himself. At Le Mans, he keeps himself interested in the long stints, where often nothing ever happens, by challenging himself to go faster each lap. Thats also a possibility

And yes it is possible to get out of contracts. At the expense of millions of his own money. He could just wait it out instead, and enjoy the F1 life style whilst hes at it.

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marcl Wrote:
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> That was one hell of an engine blow up by renault, might help them in
> the bext race though as they will get a new engine and ms wil have to
> use the same engine that just done monza.


Schumacher's engine today was on its second race weekend. He'll use a new one in the next race as well.

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flav has now said his coments were taken out of context lolol

True.

I think we can agree then, that if he really means it, then his championship challenge should be dead from within.

I predict, that in 2 weeks, he will show us that it is not, which in turn shows he still has faith in F1 being a sport.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

Or he could be out with something to prove?

For example, if i felt the FIA was fixing something agaisnt me, it would make me more deterimed to win. Just to piss off the FIA and to rub it in there face.

Note the use of the word IF

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lol at some people saying the championship is fixed.

Ferrari has been on the upperhand since indianapolis. Due mistakes by themselves in turkey, hungary they would already been leading the both championships.

Things have turned around when renault had all the luck in the world first half of the season its now ferrari time but sometimes they play with the luck like in hungary and a mistake in communication at turkey.

after canada i believe michael was 25 points behind, did the fia helped him to get to 2 points behind today ??? i don't think so. Ferrari has the best car and tyres and michael is the best driver in the F1 and thats a perfect packages if they don't mistakes and there is no dam thing renault can do about it then face it and see the title slip away.

I am sad that michael retires but understandable after 16 years in F1. But when he wins this title it will be VERY DESERVED cause he had to fight for it from race 1 till the end, only a CHAMPION can achieve that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2006 01:52AM by Bigbrother.

I dont see what the performance of the 2 teams has to do with the discussion. There is no doubt in anyones mind that Ferrari has the upper hand in terms of performance at the moment, but thats not what is being discussed at all.

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i pointed that out to the guys that say the championship is fixed !

But that would be impossible! Your very outset defines that.

Even if your determination reached godlike proportions, you couldn't win. The starting point was that the championship was fixed, remember?

So if you won, you would only prove that it wasn't fixed, making your starting point erroneous.

DaveEllis Wrote:
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> Or he could be out with something to prove?
>
> For example, if i felt the FIA was fixing something agaisnt me, it
> would make me more deterimed to win. Just to piss off the FIA and to
> rub it in there face.
>
> Note the use of the word IF

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

I dont belive that to be the case at all. IF the FIA TRIED (important word) to fix it, they cant make Schumacher drive faster than Alonso, they cant 100% for sure fix the championship. But they can do everything in there power, or any other size of effort in between to get the result they want.

And like i said before, Johnny Herbet played competitions with himself in enduraces racing. Allan McNish does it too. Especailly important when the gaps in endurance racing are so huge, that the chances of beating a car so far infront is so small, that you need to have some sort of challenge.


Date: September 11, 2006 12:33AM
Posted by: Bigbrother (IP Logged)

i pointed that out to the guys that say the championship is fixed !

Read my post. Your post doesnt address anything to do with the fixing that people are talking about. Your post concerns car performance, which isnt part of the discussion.

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Actually they can fix it as much as they want. Conjure up stuff in scrutineering, drive thru for speeding, tamper with the refuelling rig and what not. The only thing you could do was to force more and more use of underhand methods, perhaps making it blatantly clear that the championship is fixed.

If this is not the result that appears then the championship isn't fixed, since the outcome wasn't determined in advance. All you would be able to bring to the table would be a bias or a slant. Those two things are very different.

That is why I believe that it wasn't a fix, and that Renault are overreacting in the extreme. If the FIA have fixed the championship, don't you think they would have brought smarter and harder to detect problems to the Renault squad?

I think they would have opted for maximum stealth... a faulty fuel rig would have been much smarter, or penalizing Alsonso for forcing Trulli on the curb in T1/T2 even though he was exiting the pits under blue flag conditions, or fabricated speeding charges against FA when he ran with Kubica in the pits and managed to overtake him in some mysterious way.

Why would they opt to do it like this if it was a fix?

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2006 03:32AM by Morbid.

If this is not the result that appears then the championship isn't fixed,

I dont agree. I dont belive anyone would be stupid enough to fix anything in such an extreme fashion as described by you. However i do belive people would try to be sneaky enough to attempt to fix it using less methods than they could do, in order to not have the entire sport outraged at the decsions.

The fuel rig is the only suggestion there i cosnder even remotely stealthy. The rest just seem like random penalties, which is exactly what was applied to Alonso after qualifying on Saturday.

Before someone mentions it, the FIA could NOT penalise Alonso for skipping the chicane at Monza whilst attemtping to make a pass. After Schumacher was allowed to keep the position at Hungry for missing the chicane, Charlie Whitning, and the FIA clarified that as long as the car has the nose ahead when it reaches the corner, the car may keep the position if the corner is missed. Renault stated this ruling is why they did not tell Alonso to give the position back after he missed the first chicane. The FIA ruled just a couple of weeks earlier that it was a legal move, and could not go back on that decsion.

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renualt claimed the ferrari tyres were illegal after the race. The tyres were looked at and they found nothing wrong but its going to be looked at more