Italian GP - Monza - Official Thread **SPOILERS**

tripleM Wrote:
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> "So a driver can't speak there mind? The FIA are there to enforce the
> rules not babysit what the drivers feel. The recent events all go
> against Renault. Like the mass damper was banned under a rule never
> put in place to stop that device and under that logic the steering
> wheel and brake pedal should be banned.
>
> I fully agree with Alonso, this is turning out to be as fixed as the
> WWE is."
>
> Take it with the FIA.

Give me Max Mosleys phone number and I shall.

A driver can say what the hell they like and the FIA can't ban them for that. The FIA doesn't regulate what comes out the drivers mouth... I much rather see a driver talk his mind than the mumblings we get from Kimi (although I admire the guy so Kimi fans don't start jumping on my back)

It's a sad state of affairs when a driver like Alonso who doesn't usually shout out at the sport comes out saying what he has.

I just hope for the life of me that Alonso can pull this championship off, heads will be rolling at the Ferrari International Assistance World Championship when they fail to get there job down in disadvantaging Alonso as much as possible.

Keiran


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:

No, they didn't. They went to the press and made slanderous comments. They might get charged for bringing the sport into disrepute.

Stop exagerating.

DaveEllis Wrote:
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> Take it with the FIA.
>
> They tried that. And got threatened with removal from the sport.
>
> Now what do you suggest?

---

It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

mikef1 Wrote:
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> My feeling is that he wanted to stay in Ferrari with
> Massa in 2007 but Luca Di Montezemolo obviously saw differently.

Vader wrote:
I disagree.

My reasons are that according to Willi Weber he was no longer able to be the number 1 driver anymore for the team in 2007 and i can asume this is because of Luca who runs the show:

From ITV-F1:


Michael Schumacher’s decision to retire from Formula 1 may have been prompted by his inability to command the Ferrari team as the unequivocal number one driver for next year, according to his manager Willi Weber.

The 37-year-old seven-time champion was not in a position to commit to Ferrari for longer than another season, while the Italian team had a closing window of opportunity to sign rival Finnish ace Kimi Raikkonen.

And while Schumacher explained that by prolonging his racing career, he was hampering the development of Felipe Massa, Weber revealed that the Raikkonen factor also played its part.

“I think the main reason is also that he does not have the power any more to make his job 100% what he did until now,” Weber told ITV Sport’s Ted Kravitz, apparently referring to Schumacher’s ability to influence the team and its direction, as opposed to his driving ability.

Schumacher publicly maintained that the timing behind his decision was based on Massa’s future as well as his own.

He added that the decision had been an excrutiating one, which he made as long ago as July.

“It has naturally been difficult in a way but at the moment I simply knew that all the effort, all the energy and all the motivation you need in order to be competitive, and that is the only reason I want to be here, I cannot see I can have that for further years.

“It has been such a good time for all this time and there is no point to just hang in and may take away a future of a young talented driver like Felipe.

“Obviously my replacement I was aware of this for quite a long time and for Felipe it was around Indianapolis that his future had to be decided and I did not see a reason to just hang in and take away his opportunity.

“I think he is a talented and great person.”

Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo confirmed to the Italian press after the race that the team’s drivers decisions had been taken as early as mid-summer.

“Kimi’s deal was done many months ago,” said the Italian.

“Schumacher’s decision was made a few week’s ago, and I mean a few.”

Morbid Wrote:
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> No, they didn't. They went to the press and made slanderous comments.
> They might get charged for bringing the sport into disrepute.
>
> Stop exagerating.
>
> DaveEllis Wrote:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Take it with the FIA.
> >
> > They tried that. And got threatened with removal from the sport.
> >
> > Now what do you suggest?

So are you saying when they were listening to the verdict given to them from the stewards they never said anything? Pat has claimed to have seen the Ferrari telemantary that was presented as evidence.

Keiran


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:

A driver can talk his mind, sure.

A statement like that though is a very serious accusation and FIA has every right to arrange a hearing to establish if there's actual substance behind the claims.

My suggestion would be doing something useful instead of playing the sympathy card with zero effect on the state of affairs.

---

yes a driver can speak his mind but what alonso said was very very strong.

flav's comments are going to reviewed now in tootball people have been fined for speaking out about refs this is a very similar thing.

That was one hell of an engine blow up by renault, might help them in the bext race though as they will get a new engine and ms wil have to use the same engine that just done monza.

tripleM Wrote:
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> A driver can talk his mind, sure.
>
> A statement like that though is a very serious accusation and FIA has
> every right to arrange a hearing to establish if there's actual
> substance behind the claims.
>
> My suggestion would be doing something useful instead of playing the
> sympathy card with zero effect on the state of affairs.

Do something useful, like?

What are the FIA going to do, take themselves to court again? *rolls eyes*

Keiran


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:

Don't twist my words. Of course I am not.

But like with every organisation, there are standard and informal channels of communication. It is clear that they chose to use none of them.

Alonso thinks that F1 is no longer a sport, so why is he still there? Is he saying, that winning is so important, that it is ok that he stops being an athlete? It's ridiculous under penalty of hypocrisy. No sportsman would stay if he meant that, no more than a democrat would stay in an dictatorial government.

Flavio said that this incident this weekend exceeds the sporting scandals in Italian soccer. Several matches were totally rigged in that scandal. That is also totally ridiculous. He is renegging in public, now that sanctions are being brought to bear. If he REALLY meant that he should STAY with it. Now he just looks like a lying coward.

Where is Ron Dennis saying it is no longer a sport. Where is Kimi or Frank Williams? Where is ANYONE but Renault people saying these things?

Imagine if it was nothing else than a bad verdict. Sh!t like that happens, it really does. And sporting bodies sometimes overturn their own verdicts, and sometimes they opt to stick with them.

But the way Renault have handled this have forced the FIA to go into locked mode. No governing body would accept being overturned in public like that, least of all because of popular pressure in the press. That is the death of any respect or neutrality the FIA might hold, REGARDLESS of what they might want to do. Even if the FIA thinks they went totally wrong, they have to stand their ground now... and that is really brilliant politics from Renault - NOT.

Furthermore, accusing people in the press of being corrupt is slanderous. Is someone accused me of being corrupt and abusing my job or position, you could be damn sure I would be sueing their asses off faster than you can say "Holy Sh!t".

Hissy fits and being slanderous in public have forced a politically impossible situation and Renualt should know better. They made their own god damn mess. And if they get punished for it, I think it is a crying shame for the championship, but they sure as hell deserve it too.

That is what I am saying.

---

It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2006 10:55PM by Morbid.

Montezemolo is a assjack, in the long tradition of backstabbing Ferrari bosses. Schumi IS Ferrari, and we will see in the near future just how much this is true.

I hope Schumi takes the Championship this season. But even I have to admit it would mean more had the FIA allowed Renault to keep their damn mass dampers.

As for crazy asssed steward decisions... they have equally hurt both Schumi and Alonzo this year, and the FIA need to lay out some strict ruules for what stewards are allowed to impose for various infractions.

And I predict we will see a big drop off next season with Alonzo and Kimi. Ron Dennis doesn't pat drivers on the back constantly, and Fernando needs that to excel. He has to be treated with kid gloves and Ron hasn't the time or patience for that. And Kimi will be lost in the politics at Ferrari and will have to resort to drinking even more to maintain his sanity....



"There are some pikeys there at Turn 10 putting tarmac down - what do you think of that?" - Martin Brundle

Nerrazurri Wrote:
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> Ha Ha Ha, get it up that spanish pr1k. Hope he gets disiplined for his
> comments. What goes around comes around in sport. Did't hear him
> complaining about not getting a penalty for cutting the chicane, or in
> barcelona when i think it was montoya was beached on the kerb in a
> dangerous posistion. Its not ferraris fault the fia has lost control
> of this season, ferrari are asking questions to the fia and they are
> buckling under the presure of trying to show they are the ones in
> control.
>
> Not being sarcastic why was alonso able to go quicker when he and
> kubic were side by side in the pits, better driving or just the speed
> the teams set there pit limiters

First, the rules for cutting chicanes is so stupid now. Since Schumacher got off with it now they rule it as if you are ahead before you cut the corner then it's fine. So basically anyone can go in super hot so they are ahead before the corner and then just cut it to maintain the position, even though they had no way of making the corner...Crazy if you ask me.

Secondly, race stewards are not in control of the safety car. That is the race directors job whos nationallity doesn't change

Thirdly, so far everything points at disadvantaging Renault. Giving Alonso a penalty for overtaking under yellows when he had no option to as the car in front moved out of his way and slowed down, was he going to brake test him... oh yea he just got a penalty for that. The way Schumacher got off with cutting the chicane and then continuing to impend Alonso under blue flags, ironic that! Then the ban of the mass damper system under a rule not put in place to ban the device. Then we move onto the very dirty cut and weave that Schumacher did to Alonso off the line and Turkey, yet he got off with it. Thats how the two Renaults nearly touched, Alonso had to get right out of it to avoid smashing into that Ferrari. Now we get this stupid penalty... everything has gone against Renault so far. I just can't wait to see what the Ferrari International Assistance World Championship have in line for the last three races.

Keiran


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:

Webber about the penalty:

“I think people intentionally blocking other people there hasn’t been a huge amount of it and obviously the case yesterday was just absolutely nowhere near it, at all, at all.

“Fernando was doing his absolute up most to start his lap and Felipe was getting a mega slipstream anyway and probably did lose a little bit of time but it wasn’t going to be world-breaking.”

The Australian also questioned some of the other recent decisions that have gone against the world championship chasing driver.

“But what is frustrating is of course that this penalty comes in the face of a guy that’s leading the championship and there’re doing a lot of things to try and make it harder for Fernando.

"The mass damper scenario was a bit interesting then obviously the resurfacing of this track was interesting as well I would say.

“So it’s a shame. I’m a fan of the sport and a lot of people back home there are but I don’t buy in to everything to be honest.”

"Do something useful, like?

What are the FIA going to do, take themselves to court again? *rolls eyes*"

That would be a good start.

It's not actually impossible to win a court case against the FIA.

---

Literarily:
Interviewer:"Now there will be close fight in the last 3 races".
Briatore:"No, no fight, it's already decided who'll win the title".

Furthermore, it was said Schumacher decided to retire at Indianapolis last 2 July.

And there were not 2 Italian stewards, one of the two "suspicious" stewards is from Venezuela.

Morbid Wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Don't twist my words. Of course I am not.
>
> But like with every organisation, there are standard and informal
> channels of communication. It is clear that they chose to use none of
> them.
>
> Alonso thinks that F1 is no longer a sport, so why is he still there?
> Is he saying, that winning is so important, that it is ok that he
> stops being an athlete? It's ridiculous under penalty of hypocrisy. No
> sportsman would stay if he meant that, no more than a democrat would
> stay in an dictatorial government.
>
> Flavio said that this incident this weekend exceeds the sporting
> scandals in Italian soccer. Several matches were totally rigged in
> that scandal. That is also totally ridiculous. He is renegging in
> public, now that sanctions are being brought to bear. If he REALLY
> meant that he should STAY with it. Now he just looks like a lying
> coward.
>
> Where is Ron Dennis saying it is no longer a sport. Where is Kimi or
> Frank Williams? Where is ANYONE but Renault people saying these
> things?
>
> Imagine if it was nothing else than a bad verdict. Sh!t like that
> happens, it really does. And sporting bodies sometimes overturn their
> own verdicts, and sometimes they opt to stick with them.
>
> But the way Renault have handled this have forced the FIA to go into
> locked mode. No governing body would accept being overturned in public
> like that, least of all because of popular pressure in the press. That
> is the death of any respect or neutrality the FIA might hold,
> REGARDLESS of what they might want to do. Even if the FIA thinks they
> went totally wrong, they have to stand their ground now... and that is
> really brilliant politics from Renault - NOT.
>
> Furthermore, accusing people in the press of being corrupt is
> slanderous. Is someone accused me of being corrupt and abusing my job
> or position, you could be damn sure I would be sueing their asses off
> faster than you can say "Holy Sh!t".
>
> Hissy fits and being slanderous in public have forced a politically
> impossible situation and Renualt should know better. They made their
> own god damn mess. And if they get punished for it, I think it is a
> crying shame for the championship, but they sure as hell deserve it
> too.
>
> That is what I am saying.

How was I twisting your words, you have 0 facts and quite frankly I don't believe Renault weren't up till the late hours thrashing the rule book to find this rule which doesn't exist.

Governing bodys like this do have means of communication but they will very rarely be met with a decision at the race track which is to late for Renault. They will have to submit there case in writing to the FIA and sometimes along with a nice big fat cheque in the name of the FIA to support it.

Everything the FIA have done this season has gone against Renault excpect two occasions where they had to do something about Schumacher. Overtaking under red flags and parking his car to impend following drivers.

Hell the way the FIA are running the sport this year Schumacher will still win the championship next year.

Keiran


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:

Stop being a dork. It was not about facts. You went to the conclusion that drivers could never say anything, and I said nothing like it. That is twisting my words, fact or no facts.

keiran Wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> How was I twisting your words, you have 0 facts

---

It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

Alonso thinks that F1 is no longer a sport, so why is he still there?

How can you make such a statement at the moment? Alonso is bound to a contract and has no choice but to be there until the contract is over, or spend millions of his own money getting out of the contract.

To suggest he should leave immediatly is absurd.

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Morbid Wrote:
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> Stop being a dork. It was not about facts. You went to the conclusion
> that drivers could never say anything, and I said nothing like it.
> That is twisting my words, fact or no facts.
>
> keiran Wrote:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How was I twisting your words, you have 0 facts

Calling someone a jerk is hardly what I'd call admin behaviour, but never mind I shant lose any sleep over it. The very fact your calling me a jerk/stupid is laughable since you've managed to read a post aimed at someone else (reason there post is quoted...) and interpet it being aimed at yourself. Ironic that

Keiran


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
www.vMaxSR.com
www.liveforspeed.net LFS Status:

No I don't think that it is.

He can live without the money, no doubt about it. I am saying that under penalty of hypocrisy, he has to leave.

How can he continue to compete, when he is no longer competing, since it is not a sport? If it is no longer a sport, then his participation is no longer that of an athlete or sportsman, so what is he trying to do? If it is no longer a sport, it is obvious that he can no longer win, so why try? If the structure is so rotten, then why be a part of it?

The only action he can take, if he really means what he says, is to leave. Everything else would be hypocrisy.

This is why he comment is ridiculous. It is said in anger, and I am pretty sure that his actions will show that.

IMHO, Renault had a choice about being right, or getting what they wanted. Either they did not realize that, or they did, but then they chose being right.

More on an internal recollection note: Remember when we raced in PRS? We got lots of verdicts that we disagreed with, but in the end, we took them, so we would not topple the governing body, because that would have been even worse. We never went out and accused Tim of being corrupt or consciencely biased, because we knew we risked destroying the league if we did, and that would have been worse, even though it seemed certain people could never be in the wrong, lol... And what has happened there now?

Renault are throwing a hissy fit and not using their brains... Even Flavio seems to have realized that now that he has calmed down:

“These comments which have been attributed to me in the press today have been completely taken out of context,”

“A jokey remark has been turned into something it was not intended to be. I have every confidence in the governance of our sport and look forward to our team fighting and winning the Formula One World Championship this season.”

---

It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

Kieran wrote: "The way Schumacher got off with cutting the chicane and then continuing to impend Alonso under blue flags, ironic that!"

when was this?

and the stewards, the English guy goes to all the races (Tony Scott-Andrew), they have 1 local steward and one from a different country (the Enzo guy was South American).

---

RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

1) I did not call you a jerk. Nor am I calling you stupid. I said "stop being a dork".

2) I am not an admin, I am a mod.

3) I am neither admining or moderating you. You will know when I am.

4) I don't care.

keiran Wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Calling someone a jerk is hardly what I'd call admin behaviour, but
> never mind I shant lose any sleep over it. The very fact your calling
> me a jerk/stupid is laughable since you've managed to read a post
> aimed at someone else (reason there post is quoted...) and interpet it
> being aimed at yourself. Ironic that

---

It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.