is this is ur way of thinking?.......i hope not!
Posted by assadof1
20 Pages?????
guys u r killing me,i am bout 10 pages behind,thet problem is that i was very busy this week,i will try to replay.i am not sure if every body will read it as its going to be very big.
i want to coment on DaveEllis ,he said something (so u saying its complicated for the non-muslems)
let me explain,my firends (non-f1 fans) some times sees a driver stopping after he spins,and they ask me(his car is not damaged ,why dosn't he countinues)
and i say(his car stopped,and an F1 driver can't restart his car by himslef)
so theylaugh and asks me why,and i say,(its complicated).
its pretty stupide that an F1 driver can't turn his car on,but that is not because F1 cars are stupidly made,but because its a very safistcated machine.
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gooooz fra ba
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guys u r killing me,i am bout 10 pages behind,thet problem is that i was very busy this week,i will try to replay.i am not sure if every body will read it as its going to be very big.
i want to coment on DaveEllis ,he said something (so u saying its complicated for the non-muslems)
let me explain,my firends (non-f1 fans) some times sees a driver stopping after he spins,and they ask me(his car is not damaged ,why dosn't he countinues)
and i say(his car stopped,and an F1 driver can't restart his car by himslef)
so theylaugh and asks me why,and i say,(its complicated).
its pretty stupide that an F1 driver can't turn his car on,but that is not because F1 cars are stupidly made,but because its a very safistcated machine.
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gooooz fra ba
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about the sicnetfic mentionings in the Qouran,that astonshid the sicnetests,
this Artical is written by Dr. Gary Miller a Canadian former Christian theologian and minister who converted to Islam. He now works on spreading and preaching Islam to the world.
i know its long ,but please read.
[www.islamonline.net]
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gooooz fra ba
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this Artical is written by Dr. Gary Miller a Canadian former Christian theologian and minister who converted to Islam. He now works on spreading and preaching Islam to the world.
i know its long ,but please read.
[www.islamonline.net]
-------------------------
gooooz fra ba
-------------------------
Wow i've missed alot i'll answer this post to start with - as i think it covers most the issues...
DaveEllis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We tried that, and Fongu, the one arguing the
> christian side of things disagreed with that and
> said it was literal in the case we were talking
> about
>
I didn't say it should all be taken literally - there are some poetic parts and there is some obvious story telling. However things like the parting of the Red Sea, Creation etc. are not - the fact that there is a higher intelligence and higher power is not illogical at all - its just not obvious when you're confining what is true with what you see today.
> My last post was a bit more annoyed because we had
> progressed past the point of "well god changes the
> rules, so im right cos god does what he wants" and
> gotten onto a more intelligent conversion, but now
> it seems the thread will be dragged back there and
> we will go through it again before we can discuss
> it properly.
> The Bible doesn't say a man parted the sea - it
> was God.
>
> Once again, that doesnt actually matter if you
> read the thread. It was stated, as fact, by Fongu
> that the bible does not contradict science.
> Science says parting of the seas like described is
> not possible. Therefore, no matter how it is done,
> it is a contradiction.
Again how is this illogical? There is a perfectly good reason for it - because the unexplainable must point to something that is more powerful/intelligent to science - why else would God do it than to attest the Bible.
Sure i agree Morbid and Vader can discuss better than i can, showing some what of your ignorance in your faith to 'science'. I can quite happily commit to living for God - because it gives me a purpose for living - it gives me joy to know that this life is temporal and there is certainty of destination after death. Control measure or not - its a far better way to live - more joyful and a lot more moral.
>
> Also, whats the point in saying "dont read the
> bible word for word, look for the hidden meaning".
> Sorry, but that doesnt work. Not only does the
> bible change alot in every translation, but we're
> meant to not take it literaly and then think of
> abstract meanings for it? Well if each person
> actually thinks about it, we will all have totally
> different meanings, meaning christianity should
> not exsist as everyones interpretation of the
> bible will be completly different as they find
> there own meanings in it. Which, once again shows
> people belive what they are told to belive in
> relgion, rather than thinking for themselves. If
> they did think for themselves and find there own
> meanings from the bible, they would not be
> christians. They belive other peoples
> intepretations of the bible because they are told
> that is the truth, often in schools.
>
Well i agree with you there - although Vaders called me a fundamentalist/extremist i would not - i've thought about these issues - and the reformed/calvinistic views are the ones that make most sense and take the Bible seriously - because its has to be the standard by which we base our theology. A lot of mainstream Christianity these days are based on experience or community spirit - although we're not mainstream i do believe that we are the ones who see changed lives - who seek to walk correctly to the Bible in the way it was intended.
Regarding that aritcle:
[Do they not consider the Qur
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2006 09:57AM by fongu.
DaveEllis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We tried that, and Fongu, the one arguing the
> christian side of things disagreed with that and
> said it was literal in the case we were talking
> about
>
I didn't say it should all be taken literally - there are some poetic parts and there is some obvious story telling. However things like the parting of the Red Sea, Creation etc. are not - the fact that there is a higher intelligence and higher power is not illogical at all - its just not obvious when you're confining what is true with what you see today.
> My last post was a bit more annoyed because we had
> progressed past the point of "well god changes the
> rules, so im right cos god does what he wants" and
> gotten onto a more intelligent conversion, but now
> it seems the thread will be dragged back there and
> we will go through it again before we can discuss
> it properly.
> The Bible doesn't say a man parted the sea - it
> was God.
>
> Once again, that doesnt actually matter if you
> read the thread. It was stated, as fact, by Fongu
> that the bible does not contradict science.
> Science says parting of the seas like described is
> not possible. Therefore, no matter how it is done,
> it is a contradiction.
Again how is this illogical? There is a perfectly good reason for it - because the unexplainable must point to something that is more powerful/intelligent to science - why else would God do it than to attest the Bible.
Sure i agree Morbid and Vader can discuss better than i can, showing some what of your ignorance in your faith to 'science'. I can quite happily commit to living for God - because it gives me a purpose for living - it gives me joy to know that this life is temporal and there is certainty of destination after death. Control measure or not - its a far better way to live - more joyful and a lot more moral.
>
> Also, whats the point in saying "dont read the
> bible word for word, look for the hidden meaning".
> Sorry, but that doesnt work. Not only does the
> bible change alot in every translation, but we're
> meant to not take it literaly and then think of
> abstract meanings for it? Well if each person
> actually thinks about it, we will all have totally
> different meanings, meaning christianity should
> not exsist as everyones interpretation of the
> bible will be completly different as they find
> there own meanings in it. Which, once again shows
> people belive what they are told to belive in
> relgion, rather than thinking for themselves. If
> they did think for themselves and find there own
> meanings from the bible, they would not be
> christians. They belive other peoples
> intepretations of the bible because they are told
> that is the truth, often in schools.
>
Well i agree with you there - although Vaders called me a fundamentalist/extremist i would not - i've thought about these issues - and the reformed/calvinistic views are the ones that make most sense and take the Bible seriously - because its has to be the standard by which we base our theology. A lot of mainstream Christianity these days are based on experience or community spirit - although we're not mainstream i do believe that we are the ones who see changed lives - who seek to walk correctly to the Bible in the way it was intended.
Regarding that aritcle:
[Do they not consider the Qur
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2006 09:57AM by fongu.
Hakkinenf1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> its pretty stupide that an F1 driver can't turn
> his car on,but that is not because F1 cars are
> stupidly made,but because its a very safistcated
> machine.
>
> -------------------------
> gooooz fra ba
> -------------------------
>
Off topic, but im bored.
Actually, the tech regs dicate that an external starter must be used. see article 5.15 of tech regs.
-------------------------------------------------------
> its pretty stupide that an F1 driver can't turn
> his car on,but that is not because F1 cars are
> stupidly made,but because its a very safistcated
> machine.
>
> -------------------------
> gooooz fra ba
> -------------------------
>
Off topic, but im bored.
Actually, the tech regs dicate that an external starter must be used. see article 5.15 of tech regs.
fongu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I didn't say it should all be taken literally -
> there are some poetic parts and there is some
> obvious story telling. However things like the
> parting of the Red Sea, Creation etc. are not -
> the fact that there is a higher intelligence and
> higher power is not illogical at all - its just
> not obvious when you're confining what is true
> with what you see today.
Who are you to say what is definately true and not? This is your belief and goes along with creationalism.
About those particular things, I am not saying they did not happen, but I am saying they didn't happen in the way the bible portrays them - they are still stories in the bible, written to give your average person explanation of things in a nice little story. The overall meaning / jist of the story is probably right, but the actual way things happened, I would say aren't necessarily. I would say that god created the world but I wouldn't say it happened in the exact way it says in the bible - the only real important thing that people were meant to take away from this story was that god created everything really. Same with the red sea thing - it didn't just "magically part" I wouldn't have thought. I think I remember hearing that there was some evidence to say that it had dried up at on point, allowing people to walk accross it - this would go along with the story, but of course it would not be in the storylike, fancy way it has in the bible. Of course I don't know any better than you, but that is just my opinion - the old testament especially cannot be taken word for word, it is the underlying message that is important.
H E L L O
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I didn't say it should all be taken literally -
> there are some poetic parts and there is some
> obvious story telling. However things like the
> parting of the Red Sea, Creation etc. are not -
> the fact that there is a higher intelligence and
> higher power is not illogical at all - its just
> not obvious when you're confining what is true
> with what you see today.
Who are you to say what is definately true and not? This is your belief and goes along with creationalism.
About those particular things, I am not saying they did not happen, but I am saying they didn't happen in the way the bible portrays them - they are still stories in the bible, written to give your average person explanation of things in a nice little story. The overall meaning / jist of the story is probably right, but the actual way things happened, I would say aren't necessarily. I would say that god created the world but I wouldn't say it happened in the exact way it says in the bible - the only real important thing that people were meant to take away from this story was that god created everything really. Same with the red sea thing - it didn't just "magically part" I wouldn't have thought. I think I remember hearing that there was some evidence to say that it had dried up at on point, allowing people to walk accross it - this would go along with the story, but of course it would not be in the storylike, fancy way it has in the bible. Of course I don't know any better than you, but that is just my opinion - the old testament especially cannot be taken word for word, it is the underlying message that is important.
H E L L O the treatment of the old testament has to be treated in the way the New Testament treats it - otherwise there is an inconsistence. The New Testament writers assumed everything (narrative wise) in the Old Testament as fact.
There is a speculative theory about a volcano blowing up causing a sort of tsunami at the time - but a lot of loose ends don't tie up
There is a speculative theory about a volcano blowing up causing a sort of tsunami at the time - but a lot of loose ends don't tie up
lol! See! thats EXACTLY what i complained about earlier! Whenever something cant currently be explained people just point to a higher power.
just like science?
So you are more moral, and are having a more joyfull life becasuse you've living your life for god, and im living my life for me? Or did i misunderstand that. So do you have any reason to say your more moral than me? Other than your a christian and im not? Because thats an extremely generalised, and insulting comment to most of the world.
how does what another person think insult you? most people think more highly of themselves than they do of me but i'm not insulted.
you are who you are to yourself and no one else. if you're happy with yourself then what does it matter if its a good job, lots money, God, or whatever that gives you that.
the only thing worse than a bible basher forcing their beliefs down ones throat is an aethist doing the exact same
____
Tony
just like science?
So you are more moral, and are having a more joyfull life becasuse you've living your life for god, and im living my life for me? Or did i misunderstand that. So do you have any reason to say your more moral than me? Other than your a christian and im not? Because thats an extremely generalised, and insulting comment to most of the world.
how does what another person think insult you? most people think more highly of themselves than they do of me but i'm not insulted.
you are who you are to yourself and no one else. if you're happy with yourself then what does it matter if its a good job, lots money, God, or whatever that gives you that.
the only thing worse than a bible basher forcing their beliefs down ones throat is an aethist doing the exact same
____
Tony
That does not answer my question
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my replay is on the making .
anyway,in Islam,bieng a beleiver dons't make u a better person,u r not neccesrly more moral than the unbeleiver,u maybe a beleiver,but ur morals are bad,u treat ppl badly,u talk on ppls back,while i have an aethist firend,he never lies,he never steals,he never swears,so Moraly ,he is better than some muslems.
-------------------------
gooooz fra ba
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2006 04:36AM by Hakkinenf1.
anyway,in Islam,bieng a beleiver dons't make u a better person,u r not neccesrly more moral than the unbeleiver,u maybe a beleiver,but ur morals are bad,u treat ppl badly,u talk on ppls back,while i have an aethist firend,he never lies,he never steals,he never swears,so Moraly ,he is better than some muslems.
-------------------------
gooooz fra ba
-------------------------
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2006 04:36AM by Hakkinenf1.
Ah, now you see that IMO is a better way of looking at it HakkinenF1 
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