is this is ur way of thinking?.......i hope not!

fongu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> is it a control measure? in a way - yes it is -
> because God is staking a claim on everyone's life
> - the whole universe's purpose of existence is for
> Gods glory - and its because we as humans are
> special in that we were made in His image - we are
> to live in reflection of Him and His character -
> which is perfectly shown in Jesus Christ. If thats
> something you reject because you think its flawed
> then thats up to you.


your lucky that in the religion of neil the main purpose is to forgive people for there belief's and not judge them on it, religion means nothing anyway, its the person that matters.

the second is to drink alchohol, and watch nascar.

is it a control measure? in a way - yes it is

no, not in a way, it TOTALLY is. Your basicly saying we HAVE to live life the way he (or rather some random book) described. That is the ULTIMATE control measure. Using the false fear of "your going to hell if you dont do what we say" to control it.

The problem is that relgion was used as a control measure and to explain stuff which the science of the time couldnt. Now that science has come on leaps and bounds with technology alot of stuff can be explained, and people tend to belive scientific FACT rather than relgious stories (and you cant claim they are more than stories as there is no form of solid proof in the slightest).

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
theRacingLine.net
SportsCarArchives.com



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2006 01:55PM by DaveEllis.

Religion is a hugely controversal subject, and it very often appears to be heart of conflict.

But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how much faith a person has, how much they belive in their God or Gods etc, they can argue all they like, all it amounts to is a whole lot of nothingness.

The world is full of evil, greed etc and that is what sparks off wars etc, greed. Religion is just a bullshit excuse for it. How can you attack and kill others and then try to claim the moral high ground. Sorry but it just doesn't work, weather you be Christian, Muslin, Hindu, Buddist or what ever.

so killing innocsents in the name of atheism is ok?

____
Tony

Killing is wrong. Simpleas that. But its ok for christianity, since beliving in jesus lets you away with everything

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
theRacingLine.net
SportsCarArchives.com

what about non beleivers that kill?

____
Tony

What about them? You might want to explain your point, because im a bit lost and am not following it...

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
theRacingLine.net
SportsCarArchives.com

Please point out where I said that, because as I can not find it, I think I might be blind or something.

Killing, for what ever reason is NOT OK, really anyone with bean of common sense would have interpeted what I said in the way I meant it.

----

Anyhoo, here is a paradox for you all. If being called GOD (or what ever you want to call it) created the universe and everything that lays within it... then what the blazers created GOD?

God's glory meaning simply to honour Him.

ok yes it is totally a control measure - because of Him creating us - surely He has the claim to do with us what He wants - and in making us to have ('free' choices, God expects us to live to His standard.

Tell me how science has supersceded religion? Does Christianity contradict scientific FACT at all? No - some of the greatest scientists in past centuries have been the keenest Christians - as i said above - Christianity encourages people to look into science because there will be no contradictions.


Did i say killing or other evils are right for Christians? No - i'm simply stating that no matter what past you've lived - there is an opportunity to turn from it and be blameless before God






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2006 02:12PM by fongu.

Also a lot of the great Scientists were JEWS, funny really... Hitler was hell bent on getting rid of all jews, yet he was more than happy to use their technology.

i didnt say science was exclusive to christianity though...

ok yes it is totally a control measure - because of Him creating us - surely He has the claim to do with us what He wants - and in making us to have ('free' choices, God expects us to live to His standard.

And where does God say what he wants? As far as i know, the Bible was not actually written by god. Unless a random guy found it in the desert one day or it was beamed into someones living room. It actually had to be physically written by someone. So please tell me, did this book just suddenly appear (scientificly impossible, which i will address in my next point) or was it written by a real person, and therefore, not god?

Tell me how science has supersceded religion? Does Christianity contradict scientific FACT at all? No - some of the greatest scientists in past centuries have been the keenest Christians - as i said above - Christianity encourages people to look into science because there will be no contradictions.

Argued your way into a corner there. Please tell me, scientificly, how to turn water into wine. I'd like to know how it was done as it save me quite a bit of money. And "jesus went down to the local tescos" is not an answer.

I also live beside the sea, and, as far as im aware, the parting of the sea is not an everyday occurence, so I'd like that scientificly explained. Thank you

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
theRacingLine.net
SportsCarArchives.com

The Bible comes to us from people who wrote (under divine inspiration) - some of it is a written record of exactly what God said (and God said: etc). The Bible talks in terms of two causes - one 'natural' that is scientifically explainable - and yet it is equally caused by God - is it too much for an all-powerful God to do?

There are times when God intervenes in a way that is not done normally - which we call miracles (water into wine and all that) that came in periods of times during the Bible - always to show that that person was from God - so listen to Him.

convenient too.
How come these 'miracles' don't seem to happen nowadays?
Is God losing it?


F1archives * Facebook * YouTube



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2006 02:22PM by Berger_Fan.

the funniest episode of south park was when god appeard and he was this little green thing, @#$%& that was funny. and kyle asked why he didnt have his period. bahaha

There are times when God intervenes in a way that is not done normally - which we call miracles (water into wine and all that) that came in periods of times during the Bible - always to show that that person was from God - so listen to Him.

That fails to answer my question. You stated that Chrsitianity does not contradict science. Yet, science says a man can not part a sea and a man can not turn water into wine. So please explain these scientificly, like i asked, not relgiously by using the word "Miracle".

And why do todays miracles simply result in a funny image that looks like jsus forming on a slice of toast? Perhaps its because thes miracles contradict science and with todays technology, they can be explained too easily (or disproved) and suddenly the relgious buffs producing the miracles stop doing them?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
theRacingLine.net
SportsCarArchives.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2006 02:25PM by DaveEllis.

So Turkey are applying to join the EU, I think this is a good thing myself. I was watching a program on BBC a coupla days ago with Boris Johnson who was talking about the Roman Empire and how successful it was. The thing is, that Turkey is culturally different completely from the rest of Europe, yet some 75% of them still want to join the EU, and as far as I know, most of them are Muslim. However, if you ask them if they want to European or Western, they would say Western.

Hmm, strange how there are riots and revolts all over the world about murdering Westerners, and there is this one country straddling Asia and Europe that would prefer to be Western.

Anyone here visited the Hagia Sofia? It's a fantastic place, and it pretty embodies cultural diversity, and how these different religions and cultures can still work together.

Killing is wrong. Simple as that. But its ok for christianity, since beliving in jesus lets you away with everything

i don't think you'll find many christians, or of any religion, that follows that.
i know what you mean but sort of implying all killings are done by christians, and they all love it because Christ has given them a get out clause.
everyone kills, and non religious people just as much as any others.
take ariel sharon - done many bad things and killed many, yet not a religious man.


That fails to answer my question. You stated that Chrsitianity does not contradict science. Yet, science says a man can not part a sea and a man can not turn water into wine. So please explain these scientificly, like i asked, not relgiously by using the word "Miracle".

who's to say science is right? in the 20s science proved beyond doubt that if a man ran 100 meters in less that 14 or so seconds he would die. his heart/body wouldn't be able to handle it.
science has been wrong probably more than its been right, and many people see science as you see religion.

as for christ etc, if you beleive then its true. beleivers don't need prove or evidence, they just need to beleive. no amount of 'proof' will change them, just like no amount of 'miracles' will change your beliefs.

as they say, 'one mans religion is anothers comedy'. perhaps atheism is the funniest

____
Tony

As i said before - miracles were a sign to show that certain people were from God. Its not necessary today because God has already given us something from Himself to show what we're saying is truth. Am I saying that God went outside of science for these miracles - well yes in terms of natural science that is repeatable nowadays - but God created science and controls science - if He wanted to go outside the norm for a specific purpose then He could and He did.

i don't think you'll find many christians, or of any religion, that follows that.
i know what you mean but sort of implying all killings are done by christians, and they all love it because Christ has given them a get out clause.

I have done no such thing. And you carefully worded that, but i didnt fall for it You wont find many relgions that follow that, but its a fact as posted by Fongu, that killing is ok in christianity if you belive in Jesus/God

who's to say science is right? in the 20s science proved beyond doubt that if a man ran 100 meters in less that 14 or so seconds he would die. his heart/body wouldn't be able to handle it.
science has been wrong probably more than its been right, and many people see science as you see religion.

There is 1 major difference between science and relgion. Science always uses facts to attempt to back up its claims. Sometimes these facts are wrong, meaning the science is wrong, and this is corrected later. Relgion does not use facts, it uses an old book (in the case of christianity). There is no proven facts in christianity.

as for christ etc, if you beleive then its true. beleivers don't need prove or evidence, they just need to beleive. no amount of 'proof' will change them, just like no amount of 'miracles' will change your beliefs.

And once again, that is nothing but a control measure for gullable people. It is faith, and faith is beliving what your told without having any sort of real base for it. It is the perfect example of a control measure.

And still my points were not answered. Fongu claims Christanity does not contradict sciene, and i asked for the parting of a sea, and water into wine to be explained. It has not been.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
theRacingLine.net
SportsCarArchives.com