is this is ur way of thinking?.......i hope not!
Posted by assadof1
the debate going back and forth between Fongu (@ Hakkinen, F-O-N-G-U 
) and Assad just demonstrates why i don't believe in any god or religion. they both claim different things, leading to conflict between them and their followers, and hence the majority of the problems in the world.
RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2006 08:00PM by Muks_C.
) and Assad just demonstrates why i don't believe in any god or religion. they both claim different things, leading to conflict between them and their followers, and hence the majority of the problems in the world.RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2006 08:00PM by Muks_C.
I think that Hakkinen has shown quite an amazing sene of maturity here. We should all agree on not letting this thread turn into a nasty religious (or anti-religious) war.
REHAB IS FOR QUITTERS
REHAB IS FOR QUITTERS
Wasn't that assado? I got the impression that hakkinen actually tried to moderate between the two worlds - after all he doesn't come across as the dogmatic hardliner assado has turned out to be.
REHAB IS FOR QUITTERS
REHAB IS FOR QUITTERS
exactly: tolerance from all sides to all others.
it's ok to debate and try to put your point across as to why your religion is "better", but not to the point where you are basically telling the other they are going to hell if they don't believe what you say.
RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael
it's ok to debate and try to put your point across as to why your religion is "better", but not to the point where you are basically telling the other they are going to hell if they don't believe what you say.
RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael
thanx Vader,u too Morbid
and DaveEllis ,we have said this for million of times,please seperate the bombers form the Muslems.
-------------------
Muks_C Said:
the debate going back and forth between Fongu (@ Hakkinen, F-O-N-G-U ) and Assad just demonstrates why i don't believe in any god or religion. they both claim different things, leading to conflict between them and their followers, and hence the majority of the problems in the world.
-----------------------
who said that?,i even said that 35% of the Quran is about Christanity.
and our argue is about something that we all agree it happend,crusefiction
but to whom it happend ,and what followed,that we are arguing about.
saldy,that leads to a cross roads ,
we beleive that Jesus give life to a dead person,and he turned a clay into a bird(which clearly makes hima a Semi-God) but here how it came in Islam.
//And will make him ['Iesa (Jesus)] a Messenger to the Children of Israel (saying): "I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I design for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allâh's Leave; and I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I bring the dead to life by Allâh's Leave. And I inform you of what you eat, and what you store in your houses. Surely, therein is a sign for you, if you believe. (Aali Imran 3:49)
And I have come confirming that which was before me of the Taurât (Torah), and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a proof from your Lord. So fear Allâh and obey me. (Aali Imran 3:50)//
and we booth agree that Jesus will come at the end of times to kill the anti-Christ.
but again the diffrente is that we beleive he is a prophet not the sun of God.
===============================================
//O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allâh aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allâh and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rûh) created by Him; so believe in Allâh and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allâh is (the only) One Ilâh (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allâh is AllSufficient as a Disposer of affairs. (An-Nisa 4:171)
The Messiah will never be proud to reject to be a slave to Allâh, nor the angels who are near (to Allâh). And whosoever rejects His worship and is proud, then He will gather them all together unto Himself. (An-Nisa 4:172) //
=====================================
//The Messiah ['Iesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary), was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother [Maryam (Mary)] was a Siddiqah [i.e. she believed in the words of Allâh and His Books (see Verse 66:12)]. They both used to eat food (as any other human being, while Allâh does not eat). Look how We make the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) clear to them, yet look how they are deluded away (from the truth). (Al-Ma'idah 5:75)//
=====================================
about the Muslem guy who had bombs around his waist ,i think its like
(we have seen a lot of movies like this)when an old man,for example,lives alone on a scary house,and all the kids starts saying that he is a ghost and that he eats childern's heads,and sometimes he gets so angey at the kids and he says to them trying to scare them:
(Go away i will eat ur heads).got the point?
and i will end the Quran sentences with this:
===================================
//Mankind were one community and Allâh sent Prophets with glad tidings and warnings, and with them He sent the Scripture in truth to judge between people in matters wherein they differed. And only those to whom (the Scripture) was given differed concerning it after clear proofs had come unto them through hatred, one to another. Then Allâh by His Leave guided those who believed to the truth of that wherein they differed. And Allâh guides whom He wills to a Straight Path. (Al-Baqarah 2:213)///
===========================================
six degrees Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> <threadjack>
>
> <@Seth> *** How to Create a Religion in 4
> easy steps ***
> <@Seth> Step 1: Create "god", "evil" and
> "theories"
> <@Seth> Step 2: Write book (should take
> about a page)
> <@Seth> Step 3: Layer on the bullshit
> (should now be ~1000 pages)
> <@Seth> Step 4: Publish and wait for the
> suckers
>
> </threadjack>
>
> this has been a bash.org presentation, any implied
> meaning is purely coincidental and does not
> necessarily reflect the views of the poster
> (except it does)
>
>
=====================
//Beautified is the life of this world for those who disbelieve, and they mock at those who believe. But those who obey Allâh's Orders and keep away from what He has forbidden, will be above them on the Day of Resurrection. And Allâh gives (of His Bounty, Blessings, Favours, Honours, etc. on the Day of Resurrection) to whom He wills without limit. (Al-Baqarah 2:212)//
===========================
-------------------------
gooooz fra ba
-------------------------
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2006 05:26AM by Hakkinenf1.
and DaveEllis ,we have said this for million of times,please seperate the bombers form the Muslems.
-------------------
Muks_C Said:
the debate going back and forth between Fongu (@ Hakkinen, F-O-N-G-U ) and Assad just demonstrates why i don't believe in any god or religion. they both claim different things, leading to conflict between them and their followers, and hence the majority of the problems in the world.
-----------------------
who said that?,i even said that 35% of the Quran is about Christanity.
and our argue is about something that we all agree it happend,crusefiction
but to whom it happend ,and what followed,that we are arguing about.
saldy,that leads to a cross roads ,
we beleive that Jesus give life to a dead person,and he turned a clay into a bird(which clearly makes hima a Semi-God) but here how it came in Islam.
//And will make him ['Iesa (Jesus)] a Messenger to the Children of Israel (saying): "I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I design for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allâh's Leave; and I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I bring the dead to life by Allâh's Leave. And I inform you of what you eat, and what you store in your houses. Surely, therein is a sign for you, if you believe. (Aali Imran 3:49)
And I have come confirming that which was before me of the Taurât (Torah), and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a proof from your Lord. So fear Allâh and obey me. (Aali Imran 3:50)//
and we booth agree that Jesus will come at the end of times to kill the anti-Christ.
but again the diffrente is that we beleive he is a prophet not the sun of God.
===============================================
//O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allâh aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allâh and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rûh) created by Him; so believe in Allâh and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allâh is (the only) One Ilâh (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allâh is AllSufficient as a Disposer of affairs. (An-Nisa 4:171)
The Messiah will never be proud to reject to be a slave to Allâh, nor the angels who are near (to Allâh). And whosoever rejects His worship and is proud, then He will gather them all together unto Himself. (An-Nisa 4:172) //
=====================================
//The Messiah ['Iesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary), was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother [Maryam (Mary)] was a Siddiqah [i.e. she believed in the words of Allâh and His Books (see Verse 66:12)]. They both used to eat food (as any other human being, while Allâh does not eat). Look how We make the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) clear to them, yet look how they are deluded away (from the truth). (Al-Ma'idah 5:75)//
=====================================
about the Muslem guy who had bombs around his waist ,i think its like
(we have seen a lot of movies like this)when an old man,for example,lives alone on a scary house,and all the kids starts saying that he is a ghost and that he eats childern's heads,and sometimes he gets so angey at the kids and he says to them trying to scare them:
(Go away i will eat ur heads).got the point?
and i will end the Quran sentences with this:
===================================
//Mankind were one community and Allâh sent Prophets with glad tidings and warnings, and with them He sent the Scripture in truth to judge between people in matters wherein they differed. And only those to whom (the Scripture) was given differed concerning it after clear proofs had come unto them through hatred, one to another. Then Allâh by His Leave guided those who believed to the truth of that wherein they differed. And Allâh guides whom He wills to a Straight Path. (Al-Baqarah 2:213)///
===========================================
six degrees Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> <threadjack>
>
> <@Seth> *** How to Create a Religion in 4
> easy steps ***
> <@Seth> Step 1: Create "god", "evil" and
> "theories"
> <@Seth> Step 2: Write book (should take
> about a page)
> <@Seth> Step 3: Layer on the bullshit
> (should now be ~1000 pages)
> <@Seth> Step 4: Publish and wait for the
> suckers
>
> </threadjack>
>
> this has been a bash.org presentation, any implied
> meaning is purely coincidental and does not
> necessarily reflect the views of the poster
> (except it does)
>
>
=====================
//Beautified is the life of this world for those who disbelieve, and they mock at those who believe. But those who obey Allâh's Orders and keep away from what He has forbidden, will be above them on the Day of Resurrection. And Allâh gives (of His Bounty, Blessings, Favours, Honours, etc. on the Day of Resurrection) to whom He wills without limit. (Al-Baqarah 2:212)//
===========================
-------------------------
gooooz fra ba
-------------------------
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2006 05:26AM by Hakkinenf1.
Thanks Hakkinen - I only started posting when Christianity was linked with Islam - my point was to distinguish it from it. Was this discussion hostile in anyway? no, I've not attacked Islam and tried not to disrespect it - but tried to maintain what I know my consistent Bible says - thus being able to give a defence for it.
it's ok to debate and try to put your point across as to why your religion is "better", but not to the point where you are basically telling the other they are going to hell if they don't believe what you say.
Well that is what religion tells us - its not that we're better than everyone else - but we have realised that we aren't better than anyone else and we're nowhere near the perfection that God expects of us, thus deserving to go to Hell. How we rectify that is generally how religions differ - for Christianity - the solution has nothing to do with us - but its all God's doing - through Jesus Christ. Muks - you'll hate me for saying this
- but you're going to Hell if you dont believe in Jesus Christ - because thats what the Bible tells me the truth is. Does that mean I'm an intolerable person? no - i've spent years here having not said this (be it right or wrong) but being at peace in this community sharing an interest in gp4 and f1.
Hakkinen - thanks for the quotings of Quran - I've learnt lots about it actually - but its failed to convince me that the Bible is wrong in anyway (if it did it would put me out of a job) I'm glad you understand that we believe Jesus is the Son of God - creating the bird thing is not recorded in the Bible - but that does not mean it never happened - because John tells us that Jesus did many more miracles than he could write down, but those that were written were to show that He was the Son of God. What does Islam/Quran make of the cruxifixion and the purpose of it?
it's ok to debate and try to put your point across as to why your religion is "better", but not to the point where you are basically telling the other they are going to hell if they don't believe what you say.
Well that is what religion tells us - its not that we're better than everyone else - but we have realised that we aren't better than anyone else and we're nowhere near the perfection that God expects of us, thus deserving to go to Hell. How we rectify that is generally how religions differ - for Christianity - the solution has nothing to do with us - but its all God's doing - through Jesus Christ. Muks - you'll hate me for saying this
- but you're going to Hell if you dont believe in Jesus Christ - because thats what the Bible tells me the truth is. Does that mean I'm an intolerable person? no - i've spent years here having not said this (be it right or wrong) but being at peace in this community sharing an interest in gp4 and f1.Hakkinen - thanks for the quotings of Quran - I've learnt lots about it actually - but its failed to convince me that the Bible is wrong in anyway (if it did it would put me out of a job
) I'm glad you understand that we believe Jesus is the Son of God - creating the bird thing is not recorded in the Bible - but that does not mean it never happened - because John tells us that Jesus did many more miracles than he could write down, but those that were written were to show that He was the Son of God. What does Islam/Quran make of the cruxifixion and the purpose of it?assuming...
we're all children of a christian god - all, man/women, good/bad, tall/short, beleiver/non beliver.
but a mass murderer that believes goes to heaven whereas a non believing do gooder goes to hell?
in Gods eyes is non believing worse than murder/rape/fraud/etcetc ?
____
Tony
we're all children of a christian god - all, man/women, good/bad, tall/short, beleiver/non beliver.
but a mass murderer that believes goes to heaven whereas a non believing do gooder goes to hell?
in Gods eyes is non believing worse than murder/rape/fraud/etcetc ?
____
Tony
b-tone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> assuming...
> we're all children of a christian god - all,
> man/women, good/bad, tall/short, beleiver/non
> beliver.
>
Well the assumption is not Biblical - the children of God are those who are Christians - because they have the privilege of being adopted by God - thus being the sons of God. But in terms of being created - then yes we are all products of God.
> but a mass murderer that believes goes to heaven
> whereas a non believing do gooder goes to hell?
> in Gods eyes is non believing worse than
> murder/rape/fraud/etcetc ?
As i said before - you could be as evil as Hitler and you can end up in Heaven - the qualifications is not the standards of evil/good you do (compared to God - its all evil anyways because we are slaves to an anti-God nature) - its whether you believe on Jesus or not - setting you free to be able to live as God intended (despite our many mistakes whilst on this earth).
-------------------------------------------------------
> assuming...
> we're all children of a christian god - all,
> man/women, good/bad, tall/short, beleiver/non
> beliver.
>
Well the assumption is not Biblical - the children of God are those who are Christians - because they have the privilege of being adopted by God - thus being the sons of God. But in terms of being created - then yes we are all products of God.
> but a mass murderer that believes goes to heaven
> whereas a non believing do gooder goes to hell?
> in Gods eyes is non believing worse than
> murder/rape/fraud/etcetc ?
As i said before - you could be as evil as Hitler and you can end up in Heaven - the qualifications is not the standards of evil/good you do (compared to God - its all evil anyways because we are slaves to an anti-God nature) - its whether you believe on Jesus or not - setting you free to be able to live as God intended (despite our many mistakes whilst on this earth).
fongu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well the assumption is not Biblical - the children
> of God are those who are Christians - because they
> have the privilege of being adopted by God - thus
> being the sons of God. But in terms of being
> created - then yes we are all products of God.
yeah, thats the one :p
> As i said before - you could be as evil as Hitler
> and you can end up in Heaven - the qualifications
> is not the standards of evil/good you do (compared
> to God - its all evil anyways because we are
> slaves to an anti-God nature) - its whether you
> believe on Jesus or not - setting you free to be
> able to live as God intended (despite our many
> mistakes whilst on this earth).
so what if non-beleiving is considered a sin, and that is forgiven at the end/beginning?
____
Tony
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well the assumption is not Biblical - the children
> of God are those who are Christians - because they
> have the privilege of being adopted by God - thus
> being the sons of God. But in terms of being
> created - then yes we are all products of God.
yeah, thats the one :p
> As i said before - you could be as evil as Hitler
> and you can end up in Heaven - the qualifications
> is not the standards of evil/good you do (compared
> to God - its all evil anyways because we are
> slaves to an anti-God nature) - its whether you
> believe on Jesus or not - setting you free to be
> able to live as God intended (despite our many
> mistakes whilst on this earth).
so what if non-beleiving is considered a sin, and that is forgiven at the end/beginning?
____
Tony
Sin in the Bible comes in three different ways - it is not just transgressions - doing something you shouldnt, but its also failing to live up to the expected standard - and thirdly - its just living in rebellion against God (or rather living for yourself rather than God). In realising we're living against God - we can turn to God to saving us from living against Him. Only then - will God give you a new heart that is blameless and so you can seek to live in a way that does please God - although not perfect in this life - its a gradual process leading up to the afterlife. So I'm not saying that Christians can be evil - far from it - but its recognising that we've done evil - believing that Jesus has taken the wrap for us - and committing to living God's ways till we die or Jesus returns. The Bible is clear - the ONLY way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ - any other way - whether its going to church/praying/being the nicest person ever - does not qualify you to get into Heaven - although these things are evidence of being changed into a Christian.
hehe
It was the easiest means to control the masses back in teh day. Any natural phenomena would be attributed to God being angry, sad, ect. Convenient, eh?
F1archives * Facebook * YouTube
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2006 01:37PM by Berger_Fan.
It was the easiest means to control the masses back in teh day. Any natural phenomena would be attributed to God being angry, sad, ect. Convenient, eh?
F1archives * Facebook * YouTube
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2006 01:37PM by Berger_Fan.
DaveEllis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There you go, that sums up relgion. What you just
> said is "Doesnt matter how fantastic a person you
> are. If you dont belive and do what we say, your
> going to hell". In other words - control measure
>
> You have just shown to me how badly flawed "your"
> relgion is. To the point where its almost
> disgusting to read. Keep it, i want NOTHING to do
> wih it and you certainly will never convice me its
> the truth
>
/me applauds
-------------------------------------------------------
> There you go, that sums up relgion. What you just
> said is "Doesnt matter how fantastic a person you
> are. If you dont belive and do what we say, your
> going to hell". In other words - control measure
>
> You have just shown to me how badly flawed "your"
> relgion is. To the point where its almost
> disgusting to read. Keep it, i want NOTHING to do
> wih it and you certainly will never convice me its
> the truth
>
/me applauds
is it a control measure? in a way - yes it is - because God is staking a claim on everyone's life - the whole universe's purpose of existence is for Gods glory - and its because we as humans are special in that we were made in His image - we are to live in reflection of Him and His character - which is perfectly shown in Jesus Christ. If thats something you reject because you think its flawed then thats up to you.
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