is this is ur way of thinking?.......i hope not!

i think u all heard about the caricature photo for prophet muhamed that published
in a Danish newspaper few days back and republished by a french newspaper
yasterday i am muslem and i know there some other here but i want to know what
the Christian people or in other way the un muslem people who live's in europe
think about this it's just unacceptable ....i don't see freedom of speech in this
is they said ...
we already started a boycott in most of the arabic and muslem country for
everything that made in denmark ...well unless i am sure that it happend here in
my country..

i don't want to go deep on it right now just want to know ur opinion guys

and by the way is this what they call it a civilized world..........crapp


speed freak

i am not quite sure what you mean, if it big in the newspapers? i dont manage to catch the news at uni, let me have a look on the good old bbc

EDIT: i apologise in advance but on first reading i found it amusing.

In the sense of what it is i do think it is unthoughtful and is offensive to the great muslim community.

However, given the state of war and insecurity, this jibe should be taken with a pinch of salt. Its not picking against the entire muslim population, not at all.

Unfortunately, it comes across this way becuase of the circumstances, to name the middle east crisis and suicide bombing threats as examples.

Sadly, that large number of non-offensive and unthreatening muslims are seemingly unaccounted for in this stereotype of 'mohammed and the bomb on his head'. Of course, this is propaganda and western humour against our terrorist threats.

Many of us know that it is wrong to pick on the whole community, and it is unfair.

The trouble is, in my opinion, tragic events that happen are the reasons as to why we feel and react to certain things. I will own up to have said 'oh those bloody muslims' on hearing of another bombing somewhere in the world. Yes its wrong, but it isnt meant entirely as it sounds.

I think particularly recent situations where 'ordinary muslim citizens' have been discovered as bomb makers and that the July 7th suicide bombers were university students or simple everyday working people have made us more scared.

I think that many people are worried that they do not know, a fear of uncertainty.

This belief and evidence that 'ordinary' muslim people that we see as our friends then turn out to be related to terrorists shocks and upsets us. They could be our co-workers, our friends, our neighbours or loved ones. We would not know.

Because we do not know, and this camoflauge of terror, you must be able to appreciate the reason some of us use the term 'muslims' and generalise the population becuase in these cases we cant distinguish between terrorist and ordinary citizen.

As for the cartoon again, our nations are a democracy. We have freedom of speech to express our views and beliefs within a few set limits. We allow our nations to share and voice their opinions.

Muslim cleric Abu Hamza al-Mazri is one who voices his opinions of huge hatred to Christians, Britain and the western world. He openly puts us down and preaches negativity.

We allow many nations and cultures to share their lifestyles amongst us, as very few nations do. We build mosques and temples next to our own christian churches. We allow living side by side.

But, sometimes we get the feeling it is being thrown into our faces. The things we give to others, and the sense that the people we are welcoming are turning against us.





Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2006 12:28AM by danm.

I am danish. What do you want to know?

---

It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

What's the capital of Taiwan?

The way i see it, people get offended in this day and age far too easily

And over a cartoon!

I wonder what Salman Rushdie makes of all this?




LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

did you know he actually played a cameo as himself in bridget jones's diary where hugh grand asks him for directions to the loo LOL!


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it

Zcott Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What's the capital of Taiwan?

Ask someone from Taiwan, or China if you are bold.


LS. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The way i see it, people get offended in this day
> and age far too easily
>
> And over a cartoon!
>
> I wonder what Salman Rushdie makes of all this?

Yes, if you want to cut to the bone immediately, and put all considerations aside, thats basically the problem. However, I would think that there is more to it than that.

---

It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

I find it silly how the only way people can retaliate is with violence

Both sides are guilty of that, but that's a whole new debate....

.




LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2006 02:00AM by LS..

As a Christian, I see it like this:

The media are allowed free speech, so let them print what they like. If they want to make a joke, let them make a joke. If they wish to insult people, let them do that too - and I don't mean just of Muhamed either - let them do it of God, of Jesus, of the Disciples, Archbishops, whoever. Why?

Quite simply, I believe that Jesus will have the last laugh, eternally. What will it matter that's he's been insulted by jounalists when he proves them all wrong, and returns. Will they insult then?

You see, as long as I'm confident in that, what reason have I to be worried?

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2006 05:46PM by Ferrari_Fuhrer.

The irony of that statement is that you'd be almost certainly put to death because of your opinions with certain sections of the muslim faith i.e the fanatics that have their own perverse interpreation of the Quaran




LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

It is not like some muslims woke up some morning and decided to go nuts all a sudden. This has been brewing for 4 months, and there has been plenty of time and oppurtunities to defuse the situation. That things have gone to the extreme like this is not an accident. Rather it is the consequence of a lot of bad judgement, a very unhealthy debate culture in Denmark regarding "cultural differences" and various political groups and players using this to further their own ends.

The religious part of it has to do with Muhammed being depicted in 12 satirical drawings (bomb in a turban, God stating that heaven has run out of virgins and so forth). That is offensive to some. Here the religion stops and politics take over.

Jyllandsposten (or the Jutland Post) is the most rightwing of the larger newspapers in Denmark. They brought the drawings to support the publishing of a book that is filled with this stuff. Because of its content (not fear of reprisals), the author had a hard time getting the book published. According to the author, the purpose of the book is to deliberately provoke radical muslims in Denmark, because it would be "healthy". So the newspaper knew exactly they where doing, and despite what they are claiming now, they intended to offend.

I have no doubt, that one of the reasons they made this move was to support our current conservative-liberalist government. Our government relys almost exclusively on the Danish People's Party for passing laws in parlament. Here I must interject, that traditionally danish governments are in the minority and have to "shop" around in parlament to get bills passed. The Danish Peoples Party is really right-wing, nationalistic and super xenophobic. However they do provide enough votes for the conservative-liberalist government to do as they please, and as a payback they get a lot of influence on certain policies.

This has led to a hardline policy stance on everything "muslim", "foreigners", "refugees" and "immigration" for about 6 years now. Within the Danish Peoples Party, there has been several scandals within the last six months, with members of parlament publishing theories of a "muslim world conspiracy" to which every muslim in Denmark belongs and subscribes to, which has no other purpose than to being down our culture, religion and political society... Muslims have been called a "plague" and there has even been accusations of "treason" based entirely on faith.

One of the more humorous parts of this was the prime exponent of these thoughts was member of parlament, Louise Frevert, who made "black on whites" porn movies in her youth. You can find the pics via google. This has done nothing to further a good climate for understanding each other and getting along. In fact we have recently been warned by several European institutions that there was reason to be very concerned about how things where developing... smack into the middle of this, Jyllandsposten made their move.

Prime Minister Anders Fogh was actually suggested by several Middle East ambassadors, that a meeting about this would probably be a good idea. He flatly refused, citing that this was a matter for the civic society, and the press could print what they wanted. This is not in any way untrue, but it certainly would have be more shroud to invite them for a cup of coffee and tell them that. To this Anders Fogh has responded that, he thought it would be worse for the ambassadors to be met outside the ministry by the press and having to relate that their demands had been refused at the meeting. Our most prominent foreign minister, which comes from the same party as Anders Fogh (Venstre - left, do not be confused, they are right wing liberalists) and former leader of the same party for almost a decade, Uffe Elleman Jensen, and 11 retired danish ambassadors, called Anders Foghs decision a big mistake. That however did NOT change his mind, most likely because we are going through a period of heavy and deep reform of the administrative infrastructure, and he needs to show political "strength" - not flinching in the face of "fundamentalist demands".

Furthermore, Islamisk Trossamfund - The Islamic faith society, a political organisation that caters for muslim views in Denmark, and has a strong cohesive influence on the danish muslim community has also been in the maelstrom. Having met little cooperation and sympathy for their points of view in Denmark, they decided to send a delegation to the Middle East to "relate" what was going on in Denmark. It has since been revealed that they brought a substantial amount of false and extremely misleading information with them, to further their cause of gathering support. Information which I believe is circulating right now among a lot of muslims. The prime exponent Abu Laban has recently as yesterday appeared in danish media, stating that they would now seek a policy of cooperation and reconciliation here in Denmark, while at the same time he appeared on Al-Jazeera stating the exact opposite to the muslim world community. Since he has not been available for comments to the media today, it is believed that he has been "gagged" by Islamisk Trossamfund.

It is my belief that Islamisk Trossamfund are playing this to further their own position on the danish and international political scene. Recently there has been talks that Islamisk Trossamfund should form a delegation to the Middle East and speak with various government officials together with representatives of top danish industry, like Arla, Grundfoss ect... My theory is, that be cranking up the conflict, Islamisk Trossamfund are trying to rally long term support, recognition and sympathy in the Middle East, while at the same time, being able to "hook up" with big danish companies and "save them" from massive daily losses due to the boycott of danish products in the Middle East that has ensued... thus they would also demonstrate to the conservative-liberalist government, that they are a force to be reckoned with, and they can both make it easier and harder to be the ruling parites in Denmark, thus wresting free some of the rather generous influence that the Danish Peoples Party has been able to secure and exploit to great effect.

Now we have a rather huge storm of chainletters via emails and text messages whirling around, that are initiated by radicals on both sides, claim the gamuth of the neo-nazi and the hardcore fundamentalist, inciting to demonstrations here in Denmark and burning of the Qu'ran in public and what-not.

As I said, the religious aspect is the 12 drawings and offense it creates. This is a political conflict, not a religious conflict. And it is based on hate, fear and ignorance. It is so much easier to paint the other "black" thereby remaining "white", than it is to reach out and understand each other. The problem is, the latter is the only way that has any promise of progess.

---

It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

*shotgun not reading that til the morning*


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it

to me, it would just appear that the muslim people can't take a trick. muslim people (and i apologise for the generalisation) belittle the western culture all the time, but heaven forbid, we make a small joke and bam! instant repercussions.

i have further opinions not entirely related to the topic, but i'll leave them for another day.

Danm and Morbid make excellent, (if somewhat long-winded ) points though.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2006 04:24PM by Red_Bull.

really is it any surpise muslims have reacted like this? we hold islam very dear to our hearts and believe passionately about it. any sort of attack/joke/fun etc. is going to stir up feelings. in the same way that if we started blasting something danes hold dear, as an example, then they would have every right to "vent their anger". free speech huh? yeah when it suits ppl. remember that woman who stood by the cenitaph and started to read out the name sof dead uk soldeirs in iraq. she was stopped, arrested and i believe convicted. what happen to free speech then?

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rapid_f1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> really is it any surpise muslims have reacted like
> this? we hold islam very dear to our hearts and
> believe passionately about it. any sort of
> attack/joke/fun etc. is going to stir up feelings.
> in the same way that if we started blasting
> something danes hold dear, as an example, then
> they would have every right to "vent their anger".
> free speech huh? yeah when it suits ppl. remember
> that woman who stood by the cenitaph and started
> to read out the name sof dead uk soldeirs in iraq.
> she was stopped, arrested and i believe convicted.
> what happen to free speech then?
>
>
>
> 62 seats in parliament - up from 52 in 2001.


I'm sorry but its stupid.
Muslims [and i too apologise for the generalisation] too burn flags, efogies [sp?] e.t.c. if the western world wish to make a joke back then so be it, you recieve what you hand out neither has the moral high ground here.
How many millions of jokes have there been against christ, Yahweh, Buddha e.t.c. theres even a best selling novel which questions the roots of christianity entirely should Christians, Jews, buddhists e.t.c. respond in violence and feel they are always the one being persecuted?
Its free speech and were entitled to it even if it offends us.

no, not if it offends, imo. and who does the offending makes no difference. burning flags etc. is usually a reaction to something, they dont instigate the problems. and i dont want to see violence either what i meant with vent their anger was in terms of protests etc.

I.Tz No Problem
For all your home and business I.T needs
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You can't justify offending people just because you've been offended.

Besides, the real point is, who's to judge what is offensive or not? Some people get offended very easily, and why should something be particularly offensive if it's not true? Why do you feel the need to defend yourself quite so strongly? It's usually a sign that belief is not as strong as people think it is.

People would say the Bible is offensive to people who don't believe it - and it is, it tells non-believers they should go to hell. Well, that's not exactly pleasing, is it? But that's freedom of speech. If we go down the road of not saying anything that could offend, then I'm sorry, but that would have to include Islam too.

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