GPGSL S8 Round 14 -Monaco Grand Prix - The RD's Short Straw >> SHOCKING NEWS AT PAGE 204!!! <<
Posted by GPGSL
Ferrari2007 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JohnMaverick Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Stu is right. Since there were free test driver
> > seats this year, also at MPR for some of the
> time,
> > your perf would be reset. Only if there had
> been
> > NO test driver seats available, so that you
> > couldn't have competed, you'd keep your perf.
> > However, if you compete in a race, you'll
> > basically trick this rule and keep your perf,
> yes.
> >
> >
> > And I agree with Tom. Junior teams are thought
> to
> > be included from next season on in the Testers
> > championship and we'll surely discuss this
> openly
> > in the off-season. Nonetheless it'd be neat to
> > hear your plans about it. Surely, if you make
> an
> > existing team your junior partner, it'll have
> to
> > work in the way RB and Torro Rosso do it in the
> > F1. Which means that the team owner of the
> junior
> > team will have to be able to make all decisions
> > for the junior team him/herself. You'll not be
> > allowed to make plans for both teams. On the
> other
> > hand it's just natural that the junior team and
> > the main team collaborate in regards to drivers
> or
> > something.
>
> Hmm, I didn't really want to make a big deal of
> it, just wanted to make sure that I wasn't wasting
> my time in pursuing the idea.
>
> May I ask what the proposed idea's are for changes
> to the testers championship, and how junior teams
> would be implemented there?
>
> My thoughts were along the line of creating a deal
> with a team that would see that team become a
> junior partner. Essentially they would carry a
> livery based on the parent teams in a similar
> sense to what Lotus did with ART in GP2 and GP3.
>
> We would send our test drivers out to the junior
> team which would be particularly helpful if that
> team was new to the series. I believe it was
> Christel who struggled to find drivers when they
> first entered the series. This deal would benefit
> both parties as they would not need to go through
> the difficult process of finding drivers and our
> test drivers could get actual race experience to
> benefit their perf files.
>
> That would then mean we could fill our other test
> seats with other new drivers, increasing our reach
> in the series.
>
> Credit has to go to Monil who sparked off the idea
> when we were talking a few days ago.
Indeed it was Christel that had trouble in our first season. I'm not really drawn on the idea of junior teams, my only worry would be the fact that the league could very quickly become Parent and Junior teams split over the two halves of the grid.
In my honest opinion the problem is still the fact that drivers do not want to move up from the testers championship to the main championship. I think that the offer of a drive in a race seat, be it at a top or bottom team, should be one that only a fool would say no to. It should be "un-turndownable." Whether we do this by making the perf reward for a race seat a lot higher or not I don't know, but I think that when we have test drivers turning down race seats then we need to look at the situation and perhaps. Dare I suggest it, could we not stop giving points for test events and just make a focus for perf building?
GPGSL - Christel VXR team Boss S6-S8, S12 Onwards
-------------------------------------------------------
> JohnMaverick Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Stu is right. Since there were free test driver
> > seats this year, also at MPR for some of the
> time,
> > your perf would be reset. Only if there had
> been
> > NO test driver seats available, so that you
> > couldn't have competed, you'd keep your perf.
> > However, if you compete in a race, you'll
> > basically trick this rule and keep your perf,
> yes.
> >
> >
> > And I agree with Tom. Junior teams are thought
> to
> > be included from next season on in the Testers
> > championship and we'll surely discuss this
> openly
> > in the off-season. Nonetheless it'd be neat to
> > hear your plans about it. Surely, if you make
> an
> > existing team your junior partner, it'll have
> to
> > work in the way RB and Torro Rosso do it in the
> > F1. Which means that the team owner of the
> junior
> > team will have to be able to make all decisions
> > for the junior team him/herself. You'll not be
> > allowed to make plans for both teams. On the
> other
> > hand it's just natural that the junior team and
> > the main team collaborate in regards to drivers
> or
> > something.
>
> Hmm, I didn't really want to make a big deal of
> it, just wanted to make sure that I wasn't wasting
> my time in pursuing the idea.
>
> May I ask what the proposed idea's are for changes
> to the testers championship, and how junior teams
> would be implemented there?
>
> My thoughts were along the line of creating a deal
> with a team that would see that team become a
> junior partner. Essentially they would carry a
> livery based on the parent teams in a similar
> sense to what Lotus did with ART in GP2 and GP3.
>
> We would send our test drivers out to the junior
> team which would be particularly helpful if that
> team was new to the series. I believe it was
> Christel who struggled to find drivers when they
> first entered the series. This deal would benefit
> both parties as they would not need to go through
> the difficult process of finding drivers and our
> test drivers could get actual race experience to
> benefit their perf files.
>
> That would then mean we could fill our other test
> seats with other new drivers, increasing our reach
> in the series.
>
> Credit has to go to Monil who sparked off the idea
> when we were talking a few days ago.
Indeed it was Christel that had trouble in our first season. I'm not really drawn on the idea of junior teams, my only worry would be the fact that the league could very quickly become Parent and Junior teams split over the two halves of the grid.
In my honest opinion the problem is still the fact that drivers do not want to move up from the testers championship to the main championship. I think that the offer of a drive in a race seat, be it at a top or bottom team, should be one that only a fool would say no to. It should be "un-turndownable." Whether we do this by making the perf reward for a race seat a lot higher or not I don't know, but I think that when we have test drivers turning down race seats then we need to look at the situation and perhaps. Dare I suggest it, could we not stop giving points for test events and just make a focus for perf building?
GPGSL - Christel VXR team Boss S6-S8, S12 Onwards
The problem is that any drivers who step up from testing to racing needs to have enough points to be competitive, but the rewards in testing shouldn't be as much as you'd receive in race trim.
Just thinking out loud for a second...could we not change it so that testers receive a points payout based on their championship position from the previous year? For example, Andrei currently leads the test championship, so he'd get the max payout of a perf that is definitely competitive with the rest of the field and encourages him to move up to a racing seat where the rewards can remain unchanged.
As I said, I'm just thinking out loud
GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski
Just thinking out loud for a second...could we not change it so that testers receive a points payout based on their championship position from the previous year? For example, Andrei currently leads the test championship, so he'd get the max payout of a perf that is definitely competitive with the rest of the field and encourages him to move up to a racing seat where the rewards can remain unchanged.
As I said, I'm just thinking out loud
GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski
I completely agree with the issues which arise from the test drivers championship that you've highlighted.
It's pretty ridiculous that a driver would prefer to test rather than move to a full race seat.
I had a situation this year when Monil returned to test for us because it was more beneficial to his perf than to stay struggling at MAC as a race driver.
I like your idea Jake.
I'd also push to see team owners removed from the test series.
Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2013 06:31PM by Ferrari2007.
It's pretty ridiculous that a driver would prefer to test rather than move to a full race seat.
I had a situation this year when Monil returned to test for us because it was more beneficial to his perf than to stay struggling at MAC as a race driver.
I like your idea Jake.
I'd also push to see team owners removed from the test series.
Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2013 06:31PM by Ferrari2007.
Interesting ideas going around, would be interesting to see junior teams come in even if it was just for testing. I do have the same worry as Chris though, about the grid turning into half elite teams competing and the other half fighting it out whilst providing drivers for the group above.
I've always treated a race seat as unrefusable, and generally i think most other's do either. The only real crossover point is testing at MPR, TSM, AMR seems to be better than driving at the lower end of the grid which needs to be looked at. Out of the top 20 testers in S7, 8 were team owners and from the remaining 12, 9 moved into race seats for S8. The only two to stay in testing were Josh Copeman and Andrei Sevastian at TSM and AMR. For the most part people are moving up when they should, its just the top teams that get in the way
_________________________________________________
For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here: [docs.google.com]
I've always treated a race seat as unrefusable, and generally i think most other's do either. The only real crossover point is testing at MPR, TSM, AMR seems to be better than driving at the lower end of the grid which needs to be looked at. Out of the top 20 testers in S7, 8 were team owners and from the remaining 12, 9 moved into race seats for S8. The only two to stay in testing were Josh Copeman and Andrei Sevastian at TSM and AMR. For the most part people are moving up when they should, its just the top teams that get in the way
_________________________________________________
For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here: [docs.google.com]
I agree with the comment about team owners probably not being allowed to test but before that happens there needs to be more for a team owner to actually do. I know my opinion on this may appear biased but I have been pretty much powerless to stop my teams slide this season. In the end I had to cope with the very problem that Connor highlighted. I had to send my race driver to a "top-team" to test. Andrei then refused the chance to jump up to a race seat because he was in a better off position being a test one. The problem is that boosts are still a random throw of the dice and now so is qualifying.
GPGSL - Christel VXR team Boss S6-S8, S12 Onwards
GPGSL - Christel VXR team Boss S6-S8, S12 Onwards
You shouldn't forget that Andrei is in a good position to win the testers championship. Now, while this might not mean anything for one, it does for the other. So I'm pretty sure Andrei's decision had not only to do with the perfs but even more so with his chance to win a title. I wouldn't have given up this chance either, had I been in his position.
As far as partner teams are concerned, there are currently no rules about it. So if this is wished from both sides, teams can team up in this way. However, one thing has to be clear, and I wanna stress this once more! The team owner of the junior team still keeps all competence for his team. That means, this team owner cannot be -forced- by the major team owner to hire a certain driver or something. Of course, teaming up with another team it's likely that this team owner knows the expectations and will be able to work something out with the other team owner. But officially, the whole competence stays with this team owner, no matter what!
And as far as the perfs are concerned, I appreciate the ideas, personally. But as a perf creator/tester, I also see the effort that has to be put in for this. And seriously, the perfs are very complex already. While, from a technical point of view, giving the testers in general less perf growth than race drivers is easy, it'd get a lot more complex to have gradual perf gains within the testers series. So much to the technical point of view.
Aside of that, the idea is -stupid-. Sorry for the hard words, but please think one step further. When testers get less of a perf gain than race drivers, the gap between race drivers and test drivers and especially so the gap between top team drivers and lower team drivers will increase even more, since they will have all the top drivers and the other teams will be stuck with test drivers who could even less build up their perfs. And then there will be another big cry that this series is so unfair...and so on.
A race series isn't always easy going. Sometimes you don't get the driver you want. Then you have to look out for someone else and go with it. So far we have never had the situation that a team couldn't come up with a lineup. So why should we make big changes to something where there isn't a real problem? I can guarantee you, the implementation of this idea will just worsen the overall situation.
Should the day come where a team really can't come up with a complete lineup because every available driver has declined, we can still take all test drivers and draw two of them to drive for this team. As a very last option. But this'll still have less negative impact on the series than changing the whole working system.
GPGSL : Team Owner of 'Maverick Track Performance' (MTP)
As far as partner teams are concerned, there are currently no rules about it. So if this is wished from both sides, teams can team up in this way. However, one thing has to be clear, and I wanna stress this once more! The team owner of the junior team still keeps all competence for his team. That means, this team owner cannot be -forced- by the major team owner to hire a certain driver or something. Of course, teaming up with another team it's likely that this team owner knows the expectations and will be able to work something out with the other team owner. But officially, the whole competence stays with this team owner, no matter what!
And as far as the perfs are concerned, I appreciate the ideas, personally. But as a perf creator/tester, I also see the effort that has to be put in for this. And seriously, the perfs are very complex already. While, from a technical point of view, giving the testers in general less perf growth than race drivers is easy, it'd get a lot more complex to have gradual perf gains within the testers series. So much to the technical point of view.
Aside of that, the idea is -stupid-. Sorry for the hard words, but please think one step further. When testers get less of a perf gain than race drivers, the gap between race drivers and test drivers and especially so the gap between top team drivers and lower team drivers will increase even more, since they will have all the top drivers and the other teams will be stuck with test drivers who could even less build up their perfs. And then there will be another big cry that this series is so unfair...and so on.
A race series isn't always easy going. Sometimes you don't get the driver you want. Then you have to look out for someone else and go with it. So far we have never had the situation that a team couldn't come up with a lineup. So why should we make big changes to something where there isn't a real problem? I can guarantee you, the implementation of this idea will just worsen the overall situation.
Should the day come where a team really can't come up with a complete lineup because every available driver has declined, we can still take all test drivers and draw two of them to drive for this team. As a very last option. But this'll still have less negative impact on the series than changing the whole working system.
GPGSL : Team Owner of 'Maverick Track Performance' (MTP)
The idea that got raised of team owners not driving in the test sessions, to allow other drivers into the series : if team owners are not allowed to drive in test series, or race series, what is left for them to do???!!! NOTHING? That may suit some, others no.... personally, I like being able to trundle around in the test sessions whilst owning a team. I vacated a decent race seat to take on team ownership. If potential new team owners were not allowed to drive at all once in ownership mode, that waiting list may get worked through like a spinning wheel!
My 2 cents, team owners should absolutely be allowed to drive in test sessions. I agree about keeping out of the main race series though...
GPGSL Team Owner Debut - Melbourne, Season 8 - present
GPGSL Test Debut - Hungary, Season 4. GPGSL Race Debut - Adelaide, Season 5.
My 2 cents, team owners should absolutely be allowed to drive in test sessions. I agree about keeping out of the main race series though...
GPGSL Team Owner Debut - Melbourne, Season 8 - present
GPGSL Test Debut - Hungary, Season 4. GPGSL Race Debut - Adelaide, Season 5.
JohnMaverick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You shouldn't forget that Andrei is in a good
> position to win the testers championship. Now,
> while this might not mean anything for one, it
> does for the other. So I'm pretty sure Andrei's
> decision had not only to do with the perfs but
> even more so with his chance to win a title. I
> wouldn't have given up this chance either, had I
> been in his position.
But you would have had the offer of a race seat?! I see what you mean I really do, he was in with a chance of winning a title and that would be great to anybody, but the base fact of the matter is a race seat should be the ultimate offer and blow anything else out of the water. Agreed it is down to the person themselves if they take the seat but surely it should be what everyone is aspiring to. Therefore I ask do we need a testers championship at all? Run it just as it is but dont score it. That way perfs get built as normal but there is no emphasis on a championship. Just a thought to float.
GPGSL - Christel VXR team Boss S6-S8, S12 Onwards
-------------------------------------------------------
> You shouldn't forget that Andrei is in a good
> position to win the testers championship. Now,
> while this might not mean anything for one, it
> does for the other. So I'm pretty sure Andrei's
> decision had not only to do with the perfs but
> even more so with his chance to win a title. I
> wouldn't have given up this chance either, had I
> been in his position.
But you would have had the offer of a race seat?! I see what you mean I really do, he was in with a chance of winning a title and that would be great to anybody, but the base fact of the matter is a race seat should be the ultimate offer and blow anything else out of the water. Agreed it is down to the person themselves if they take the seat but surely it should be what everyone is aspiring to. Therefore I ask do we need a testers championship at all? Run it just as it is but dont score it. That way perfs get built as normal but there is no emphasis on a championship. Just a thought to float.
GPGSL - Christel VXR team Boss S6-S8, S12 Onwards
The boosts were changed already in a way that the bottom teams have a lot more boost points than the top teams. It's up to them to make use of this and this also brings in a tactical feature for every team owner.
On the other hand you can't make boosts too big or you'll just have procession races where the ones with the biggest perf win and the others row up behind it. That's also not what is wished for this series.
And Sebastian, the GPGSL will not become a manager game. It has been successful the way it is for 8 seasons now, which is something that no other league of this board can claim. The F1 manager is a series of its own and the GPGSL won't go and copy it. After all there is a reason why the GPGSL is so successful and the manager game is struggling.
GPGSL : Team Owner of 'Maverick Track Performance' (MTP)
On the other hand you can't make boosts too big or you'll just have procession races where the ones with the biggest perf win and the others row up behind it. That's also not what is wished for this series.
And Sebastian, the GPGSL will not become a manager game. It has been successful the way it is for 8 seasons now, which is something that no other league of this board can claim. The F1 manager is a series of its own and the GPGSL won't go and copy it. After all there is a reason why the GPGSL is so successful and the manager game is struggling.
GPGSL : Team Owner of 'Maverick Track Performance' (MTP)
I like the Testers' Championship (and I really want to win it) and I also like the way it is held, maybe we could use some more races (5-6/championship). Also, would be nice if the top 5 testers could go straight into the main series as race drivers. I see this as follows:
1. The best 5 testers fill in the gap for those 5 dropouts (excluding team owners) and get some extra boosts (I think a pref upgrade would be a great prize at the end of the year for a tester). They will compete the next year as race drivers.
2. The next 5 testers (6-10th in the final testers' championship) will move up to those 5 vacant seats. (as a nice gesture)
3. The 5 race drivers dropouts would go to the "worst" teams on the grid and will compete as testers for the next year. They can keep their prefs and thus can spice up things.
Thoughts?
____
1. The best 5 testers fill in the gap for those 5 dropouts (excluding team owners) and get some extra boosts (I think a pref upgrade would be a great prize at the end of the year for a tester). They will compete the next year as race drivers.
2. The next 5 testers (6-10th in the final testers' championship) will move up to those 5 vacant seats. (as a nice gesture)
3. The 5 race drivers dropouts would go to the "worst" teams on the grid and will compete as testers for the next year. They can keep their prefs and thus can spice up things.
Thoughts?
____
And I agree with everything that Chris Copeman has said on this page. (The smaller teams have to stick together. I feel like we are the Jordan F1 & Stewart GP of the GPGSL 
)
Retro Liveries on the SMD-ZG02![www.grandprixgames.org]
Retro Renders 2.0 on the SMD-ZG02LN![www.grandprixgames.org]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2013 02:44AM by Macca25.
)Retro Liveries on the SMD-ZG02![www.grandprixgames.org]
Retro Renders 2.0 on the SMD-ZG02LN![www.grandprixgames.org]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2013 02:44AM by Macca25.
Been having a few test runs with the current versions of both mods I have, and I have to say I was surprised at some of the results I saw. But the main issue I have with the Imola track is the graphical tears that appear when using the race drivers mod (testers mod doesn't have the same problem). I just hope it doesn't do it again when I use the updated mod. I'll post a screenshot of the problem when I get the chance to do so.
Looking forward to race on the old Imola layout, hope that I can keep up my good performance of the last few races.
JohnMaverick schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The boosts were changed already in a way that the
> bottom teams have a lot more boost points than the
> top teams. It's up to them to make use of this and
> this also brings in a tactical feature for every
> team owner.
> On the other hand you can't make boosts too big or
> you'll just have procession races where the ones
> with the biggest perf win and the others row up
> behind it. That's also not what is wished for this
> series.
>
> And Sebastian, the GPGSL will not become a manager
> game. It has been successful the way it is for 8
> seasons now, which is something that no other
> league of this board can claim. The F1 manager is
> a series of its own and the GPGSL won't go and
> copy it. After all there is a reason why the GPGSL
> is so successful and the manager game is
> struggling.
A main reason for this is the lack of RDs. Without Stu running a big part of the races here (at this point a big thanks to you and also the other RDs for your efforts
), we could also be in trouble a bit.
Some mods
F1 1996 | F1 2002 | F1 2007 | F1 2011 | F1 2013 | F1 2015 | F1 2018
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2013 10:44AM by kedy89.
JohnMaverick schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The boosts were changed already in a way that the
> bottom teams have a lot more boost points than the
> top teams. It's up to them to make use of this and
> this also brings in a tactical feature for every
> team owner.
> On the other hand you can't make boosts too big or
> you'll just have procession races where the ones
> with the biggest perf win and the others row up
> behind it. That's also not what is wished for this
> series.
>
> And Sebastian, the GPGSL will not become a manager
> game. It has been successful the way it is for 8
> seasons now, which is something that no other
> league of this board can claim. The F1 manager is
> a series of its own and the GPGSL won't go and
> copy it. After all there is a reason why the GPGSL
> is so successful and the manager game is
> struggling.
A main reason for this is the lack of RDs. Without Stu running a big part of the races here (at this point a big thanks to you and also the other RDs for your efforts
), we could also be in trouble a bit.Some mods
F1 1996 | F1 2002 | F1 2007 | F1 2011 | F1 2013 | F1 2015 | F1 2018
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2013 10:44AM by kedy89.
I think it is a mistake that there is a testers "championship", maybe its more fun for the testers but I dont think they should see it as a real championship.It is just a testing session.. It is weird that people want to keep their test seat when a chance comes for a racing seat.
And I love the idea for a feeder team, but what if the team does better then the parent team? Then its just weird :P
Race starts: 141 | Points: 886 | Podiums: 35 | Race wins: 10
Follow me on: Twitter | Instagram | Facebook
And I love the idea for a feeder team, but what if the team does better then the parent team? Then its just weird :P
Race starts: 141 | Points: 886 | Podiums: 35 | Race wins: 10
Follow me on: Twitter | Instagram | Facebook
Charrel schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it is a mistake that there is a testers
> "championship", maybe its more fun for the testers
> but I dont think they should see it as a real
> championship.It is just a testing session.. It is
> weird that people want to keep their test seat
> when a chance comes for a racing seat.
>
> And I love the idea for a feeder team, but what if
> the team does better then the parent team? Then
> its just weird :P
Happened in F1 in 2008 when STR was better than RBR
Some mods
F1 1996 | F1 2002 | F1 2007 | F1 2011 | F1 2013 | F1 2015 | F1 2018
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it is a mistake that there is a testers
> "championship", maybe its more fun for the testers
> but I dont think they should see it as a real
> championship.It is just a testing session.. It is
> weird that people want to keep their test seat
> when a chance comes for a racing seat.
>
> And I love the idea for a feeder team, but what if
> the team does better then the parent team? Then
> its just weird :P
Happened in F1 in 2008 when STR was better than RBR
Some mods
F1 1996 | F1 2002 | F1 2007 | F1 2011 | F1 2013 | F1 2015 | F1 2018
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