GPGSL S8 Round 14 -Monaco Grand Prix - The RD's Short Straw >> SHOCKING NEWS AT PAGE 204!!! <<
Posted by GPGSL
As a current tester, I'm super keen to progress to a race seat, ideally with MPR however I suspect there may be a bit of a queue for one of those seats 
I can understand if someone's toward the top of the Tester's champ wanting to hang around and hopefully take it out as a feather in their caps but I do suspect most people want to be in the main game. Definitely good to have team bosses in the Testers series to keep them involved. Must be satisfying for anyone with their boss as a team mate to kick their ass!
The current system I think is pretty good - it's been refined over 7 seasons so far so any changes should be evolution rather than revolution as what's so good about the series is for how long it's been running ans the amount of the community involved.
I can understand if someone's toward the top of the Tester's champ wanting to hang around and hopefully take it out as a feather in their caps but I do suspect most people want to be in the main game. Definitely good to have team bosses in the Testers series to keep them involved. Must be satisfying for anyone with their boss as a team mate to kick their ass!
The current system I think is pretty good - it's been refined over 7 seasons so far so any changes should be evolution rather than revolution as what's so good about the series is for how long it's been running ans the amount of the community involved.
I personally like the KISS theory : Keep It Simple, Stupid!!!!
GPGSL is tough and hard enough to run to the level it currently is, all through voluntary time donated by people. Any massively complex additions may just be too much, and may drive people away. The way the test series currently is, and the race series, things are pretty good. We all know there have been issues/complaints about single lap qualy, and 1 pit stop racing. But they are simple things which will be dealt with over the off season, quickly and sensibly. Over complicating things, is just asking for un-necessary hassle.
GPGSL Team Owner Debut - Melbourne, Season 8 - present
GPGSL Test Debut - Hungary, Season 4. GPGSL Race Debut - Adelaide, Season 5.
GPGSL is tough and hard enough to run to the level it currently is, all through voluntary time donated by people. Any massively complex additions may just be too much, and may drive people away. The way the test series currently is, and the race series, things are pretty good. We all know there have been issues/complaints about single lap qualy, and 1 pit stop racing. But they are simple things which will be dealt with over the off season, quickly and sensibly. Over complicating things, is just asking for un-necessary hassle.
GPGSL Team Owner Debut - Melbourne, Season 8 - present
GPGSL Test Debut - Hungary, Season 4. GPGSL Race Debut - Adelaide, Season 5.
Whilst it is good on paper to free more driver slots in the tester league, some if not MOST of our longest serving members of the league are Owners, Test Drivers, or both.
This is more beneficial to the league because whilst we need freshness, we also need a core and some sort of constant. Team owners are less likely to vanish (as history has shown) versus a driver too.
We've seen how lots of newcomers join, get excited, then vanish. Too many open slots = too many new faces = higher chance of these guys losing interest.
If Owners cannot compete at all, I for one, with Glen, would lose a lot of interest.
On a side note, what about using the end of season perf values for Main and Testers tables and use a form of 'promotion/relegation'?
I know it was discussed before and disliked, but there is an issue as you say of testers having better perf values and storming the main series.
Maybe each end of season, the testers and main drivers should be combined, and the top 22 of both leagues are automatically entitled to the main drives? You could get three new promoted testers, or just one, or none. Its a lottery. It'd measure and reflect a good test season. It'd also allow a slow main driver proof that he needed drop a level, build up his perf with the testers, and return to the main series a lot stronger.
Keeps the league fresh in a way... and only the best drivers will stay at the top.
Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it
This is more beneficial to the league because whilst we need freshness, we also need a core and some sort of constant. Team owners are less likely to vanish (as history has shown) versus a driver too.
We've seen how lots of newcomers join, get excited, then vanish. Too many open slots = too many new faces = higher chance of these guys losing interest.
If Owners cannot compete at all, I for one, with Glen, would lose a lot of interest.
On a side note, what about using the end of season perf values for Main and Testers tables and use a form of 'promotion/relegation'?
I know it was discussed before and disliked, but there is an issue as you say of testers having better perf values and storming the main series.
Maybe each end of season, the testers and main drivers should be combined, and the top 22 of both leagues are automatically entitled to the main drives? You could get three new promoted testers, or just one, or none. Its a lottery. It'd measure and reflect a good test season. It'd also allow a slow main driver proof that he needed drop a level, build up his perf with the testers, and return to the main series a lot stronger.
Keeps the league fresh in a way... and only the best drivers will stay at the top.
Charrel Wrote:
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> And I love the idea for a feeder team, but what if
> the team does better then the parent team? Then
> its just weird :P
Then you'd get sacked and we would pinch the junior teams driver
Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions
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> And I love the idea for a feeder team, but what if
> the team does better then the parent team? Then
> its just weird :P
Then you'd get sacked and we would pinch the junior teams driver
Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions
@Dan:
Of course this is all open to discussion. But my 2 cents on it is a repetition of what I said earlier: Why change a running system so drastically? I honestly think this whole test driver topic is massively blown up and way over the top of the actual problem. Just because we had a few drivers who turned down a race seat there isn't an actual problem yet. Every team managed to get a full lineup. And compare the turndowns to the number of people who more than willingly accepted a race seat.
It's part of the tactical game of a team owner to decide which driver might be best for his/her team. If a team owner wants to go with consistency but a driver who might have a slightly worse perf than a tester, then it's their good choice to do that. And vice versa. I really wouldn't wanna see team owners restricted by a relegation system. The way drivers present themselves (active/inactive, polite/smartass, etc.) have an impact on team owner decisions. And that's an aspect which shouldn't be restrained, in my opinion.
GPGSL : Team Owner of 'Maverick Track Performance' (MTP)
Of course this is all open to discussion. But my 2 cents on it is a repetition of what I said earlier: Why change a running system so drastically? I honestly think this whole test driver topic is massively blown up and way over the top of the actual problem. Just because we had a few drivers who turned down a race seat there isn't an actual problem yet. Every team managed to get a full lineup. And compare the turndowns to the number of people who more than willingly accepted a race seat.
It's part of the tactical game of a team owner to decide which driver might be best for his/her team. If a team owner wants to go with consistency but a driver who might have a slightly worse perf than a tester, then it's their good choice to do that. And vice versa. I really wouldn't wanna see team owners restricted by a relegation system. The way drivers present themselves (active/inactive, polite/smartass, etc.) have an impact on team owner decisions. And that's an aspect which shouldn't be restrained, in my opinion.
GPGSL : Team Owner of 'Maverick Track Performance' (MTP)
JohnMaverick Wrote:
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> The way drivers present themselves (active/inactive,
> polite/smartass, etc.) have an impact on team
> owner decisions. And that's an aspect which
> shouldn't be restrained, in my opinion.
I definitely agree on this point, as John may well know.
Why should a team be forced to take any driver?
One the delights of the series is being able to sign who you like, and it's great to have a team full of active and interested people as you end up chatting quite a bit.
That's one of the things that I considered a shame about losing John to Aston for Season 8 as he was always very vocal and honest in his opinions vis PMs, which increases the experience of being a teamboss.
Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions
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> The way drivers present themselves (active/inactive,
> polite/smartass, etc.) have an impact on team
> owner decisions. And that's an aspect which
> shouldn't be restrained, in my opinion.
I definitely agree on this point, as John may well know.
Why should a team be forced to take any driver?
One the delights of the series is being able to sign who you like, and it's great to have a team full of active and interested people as you end up chatting quite a bit.
That's one of the things that I considered a shame about losing John to Aston for Season 8 as he was always very vocal and honest in his opinions vis PMs, which increases the experience of being a teamboss.
Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions
I feel i have to express my thoughts on this matter now aswell.
As JohnM said above, Team Owners should have a free choice in picking drivers and not be given a selection of drivers out of which to pick one or two.
A TDC is really important for the interest of (max.) 22 other drivers. I see no need in changing the rules as they are.
What if the point scoring sessions of the TDC get limited, to 6-10 events. Events that should be picked before they take place. This way there are some non point scoring events and lets testdrivers make the jump to the race series a lot quicker.
P.S. iw as only tlaking point scoring sessions, performance points should be handed out for every event ofcourse.
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"If in doubt, Flat out."
As JohnM said above, Team Owners should have a free choice in picking drivers and not be given a selection of drivers out of which to pick one or two.
A TDC is really important for the interest of (max.) 22 other drivers. I see no need in changing the rules as they are.
What if the point scoring sessions of the TDC get limited, to 6-10 events. Events that should be picked before they take place. This way there are some non point scoring events and lets testdrivers make the jump to the race series a lot quicker.
P.S. iw as only tlaking point scoring sessions, performance points should be handed out for every event ofcourse.
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"If in doubt, Flat out."
I'd be interested to see some sort of analysis of how much a drivers perf grows in the test series.
For example, how has Andrei's perf grown in his season and a half as a test driver in comparison to a driver who has driven in the race series over the same period.
Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions
For example, how has Andrei's perf grown in his season and a half as a test driver in comparison to a driver who has driven in the race series over the same period.
Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions
Your findings in that instance Connor are pretty shocking and reveal a problem that needs to be addressed as it simply makes no sense.
Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions
Races: 163 - Wins: 23 - Pole Positions: 24 - Fastest Laps: 22
Season 9: Constructors' Champions
My 2 cents:
I've always maintained that I only hold the Team Shadow tester's seat when we have no interest from people wanting to be test drivers (I never accept offers from other team owners interested in the seat). That said, I don't actively scout test drivers as I reckon if they're really interested in the series they'll get in touch with me. So, if there were no team owners in the seats then I doubt there would be any more people than there are at the moment in the test series.
On the performance note, I think it's important to allow test drivers to develop their performance on an equal playing field to the race drivers. I have seen many of my successful test drivers go on to join some of the lower field teams as a race driver. Surely this is great for the lower teams who otherwise may not have the opportunity to have such high-caliber drivers. If the race drivers develop at a faster rate then why would anyone ever pick a test driver to join their race team? We'll end up no driver changes ever happening.
I also like the fact that drivers can currently make the decision to either take a risk with a race seat in a lower team and have the excitement of racing, or go for the possibly more stable but less exciting test drivers role in a top team in the hope of being promoted in the future.
I've always maintained that I only hold the Team Shadow tester's seat when we have no interest from people wanting to be test drivers (I never accept offers from other team owners interested in the seat). That said, I don't actively scout test drivers as I reckon if they're really interested in the series they'll get in touch with me. So, if there were no team owners in the seats then I doubt there would be any more people than there are at the moment in the test series.
On the performance note, I think it's important to allow test drivers to develop their performance on an equal playing field to the race drivers. I have seen many of my successful test drivers go on to join some of the lower field teams as a race driver. Surely this is great for the lower teams who otherwise may not have the opportunity to have such high-caliber drivers. If the race drivers develop at a faster rate then why would anyone ever pick a test driver to join their race team? We'll end up no driver changes ever happening.
I also like the fact that drivers can currently make the decision to either take a risk with a race seat in a lower team and have the excitement of racing, or go for the possibly more stable but less exciting test drivers role in a top team in the hope of being promoted in the future.
Wisely spoken, Tom. You have actually pointed out a fact which I thought about earlier but forgot to mention in my post. With test drivers having less of an improvement in their perfs, they would have very little chance to ever get a race seat. And if so, then it'd be a bottom field team which is already struggling with less motor power anyway. Hence the lower teams would be even more penalized by such an action, along with the test drivers. That somehow doesn't make sense.
As for the other aspect: Take me as an example. When VSM asked in S5 for a loan deal I was thinking about exactly that. In the end the thrill of a race seat was exciting enough to take the offer, with the prospect of losing some perf advantage. But since I had been able to build up a solid perf, I managed to get VSM a win and two more podiums (if I remember correctly). All such stories wouldn't work out anymore with such a drastic change of the test championship.
As for Mr. Hinz's case, I'm honestly not sure whether or not there might have been a mistake. But since I know that there are some twitches in the carry over of the perfs into a new season, I'll leave it up to Stu to comment that. Remember one thing however: Up to this season only the first 12 drivers got points. Meaning, drivers who constantly drove worse than P12 couldn't have much perf improvement. This is one reason why Chris still has a rather low perf after all his seasons, I'm afraid. The rest is up to Stu to be explained.
GPGSL : Team Owner of 'Maverick Track Performance' (MTP)
As for the other aspect: Take me as an example. When VSM asked in S5 for a loan deal I was thinking about exactly that. In the end the thrill of a race seat was exciting enough to take the offer, with the prospect of losing some perf advantage. But since I had been able to build up a solid perf, I managed to get VSM a win and two more podiums (if I remember correctly). All such stories wouldn't work out anymore with such a drastic change of the test championship.
As for Mr. Hinz's case, I'm honestly not sure whether or not there might have been a mistake. But since I know that there are some twitches in the carry over of the perfs into a new season, I'll leave it up to Stu to comment that. Remember one thing however: Up to this season only the first 12 drivers got points. Meaning, drivers who constantly drove worse than P12 couldn't have much perf improvement. This is one reason why Chris still has a rather low perf after all his seasons, I'm afraid. The rest is up to Stu to be explained.
GPGSL : Team Owner of 'Maverick Track Performance' (MTP)
> Another interesting thing i found was the both
> Josh Copeman and Dominic Brunner started S8 with a
> higher perf than Chris Hinz.
> Chris has been in for 5 full seasons as a race
> driver (16028,16054)
> Josh tested at TSM for 5 races in S7 with 4 points
> finishes. (16033,16063)
> Dominic tested for 4 races in S7 with Snake,
> finishing 22/20/22/17 (16032,16060)
Being in the series from the end of S5 and and despite having received 2 penalties I also started with higher perfs than Chris
> Josh Copeman and Dominic Brunner started S8 with a
> higher perf than Chris Hinz.
> Chris has been in for 5 full seasons as a race
> driver (16028,16054)
> Josh tested at TSM for 5 races in S7 with 4 points
> finishes. (16033,16063)
> Dominic tested for 4 races in S7 with Snake,
> finishing 22/20/22/17 (16032,16060)
Being in the series from the end of S5 and and despite having received 2 penalties I also started with higher perfs than Chris
JohnMaverick Wrote:
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> As for Mr. Hinz's case, I'm honestly not sure
> whether or not there might have been a mistake.
> But since I know that there are some twitches in
> the carry over of the perfs into a new season,
> I'll leave it up to Stu to comment that. Remember
> one thing however: Up to this season only the
> first 12 drivers got points. Meaning, drivers who
> constantly drove worse than P12 couldn't have much
> perf improvement. This is one reason why Chris
> still has a rather low perf after all his seasons,
> I'm afraid. The rest is up to Stu to be explained.
I was unsure whether to post what i found as i figured you perf guys would have a completely logical explanation for it. The problem with the part i've highlighted is that Dominic didn't score a single point in S7, with a highest finish of 17th, yet ended up on 16032,16060. Chris did achieve 11th in S5 and has competed in a lot of races, i just figured that would transpose over to current season more than what the numbers show. But i trust what you and Stu have composed
. If it would be easier to move this discussion to PM that's fine.
I also noticed i have the worst perf out of any race driver this season, how i got a race drive and have no finished last in every race is beyond me! Oh and Dominic sorry to use you as an example, i'm not trying to destroy your perf
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For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here: [docs.google.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2013 10:01PM by truecrysis.
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> As for Mr. Hinz's case, I'm honestly not sure
> whether or not there might have been a mistake.
> But since I know that there are some twitches in
> the carry over of the perfs into a new season,
> I'll leave it up to Stu to comment that. Remember
> one thing however: Up to this season only the
> first 12 drivers got points. Meaning, drivers who
> constantly drove worse than P12 couldn't have much
> perf improvement. This is one reason why Chris
> still has a rather low perf after all his seasons,
> I'm afraid. The rest is up to Stu to be explained.
I was unsure whether to post what i found as i figured you perf guys would have a completely logical explanation for it. The problem with the part i've highlighted is that Dominic didn't score a single point in S7, with a highest finish of 17th, yet ended up on 16032,16060. Chris did achieve 11th in S5 and has competed in a lot of races, i just figured that would transpose over to current season more than what the numbers show. But i trust what you and Stu have composed
. If it would be easier to move this discussion to PM that's fine.I also noticed i have the worst perf out of any race driver this season, how i got a race drive and have no finished last in every race is beyond me! Oh and Dominic sorry to use you as an example, i'm not trying to destroy your perf
_________________________________________________
For a list of EVERY download for GP4, look here: [docs.google.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2013 10:01PM by truecrysis.
Perf penalties are nulled at the end of a season (something which I personally don't really like, but it's as it is). So this doesn't have an impact.
But I gotta admit that the transformation from one season to the next was completely Stu's thing last season. Again, it'll be up to him to explain this, since I can't really figure out either what happened there.
GPGSL : Team Owner of 'Maverick Track Performance' (MTP)
But I gotta admit that the transformation from one season to the next was completely Stu's thing last season. Again, it'll be up to him to explain this, since I can't really figure out either what happened there.
GPGSL : Team Owner of 'Maverick Track Performance' (MTP)
Whoa, what's the matter? Junior Teams? No TDC? Keep things as they are guys 
[JOKE MODE]
By the way:
I'll shave my hair off for Chris's performance.
#BaldforChris
[JOKE MODE OFF]
My GPGSL Career
[JOKE MODE]
By the way:
I'll shave my hair off for Chris's performance.
#BaldforChris
[JOKE MODE OFF]
My GPGSL Career
oh, i'm feeling honoured
actually i asked for my performance being reduced prior to the season so i don't win a race. i want to keep that heidfeld title
used to be GPGSL's Nick Heidfeld
actually i asked for my performance being reduced prior to the season so i don't win a race. i want to keep that heidfeld title
used to be GPGSL's Nick Heidfeld
Re the performances - it is only really one seasons worth of points that count towards the following seasons performance. The points scored in a season are scaled down by a predecided factor which effectively reset the performances but give a slight advantage to successful drivers. You wouldn't expect that because someone has been in a series for a long time that they have a strong performance. This has become even more the case in recent seasons where driver performances are being closed up to prevent any one driver becoming dominant.
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