FIA to launch probe on '08 Singapore GP

what? see for yourself... the facts are there and no one can never ignore them.

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Where is there? Can you point it? I'm apparently too stupid to see the evidence, but someone as smart as you should be able to provide a link. With evidence.

You've been called out, put up your irrefutable evidence, you know the rules, back it up with the facts, a valid link, a news report, a statement...to keep on saying the facts are there without showing them, is nothing more than a blatant case of wishful thinking and

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2009 03:13PM by phantaman.

That doesn't even mention Alonso... :\



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2009 03:15PM by gav.

That someone is probably Symonds and/or Briatore. The Renault boss wants them to be banend from F1 or something along those lines.

Morbid Wrote:

> I don't know if you have noticed this, but you are
> not in any way commenting on Massa's ability to
> sue. All your comments concern whether or not he
> can win such a lawsuit.

Yeah, I did notice this. However discussing whether or not he CAN sue is a completely pointless task. Anyone can sue over anything. I can sue you if I wanted, for using the name Morbid. I have no reason to, and I won't win, but I can do it.

So lets think about the situation. Massa goes to his lawyer. "I want to sue Piquet". "Why?" "He cost me the world championship by crashing". "Ok". "So what happened in the race?" "Piquet crashed, I ripped my fuel hose out and lost". "...you won't win" "oh "

The topic of whether or not Massa can sue can be summed up with "yes". So it isn't even a topic of discussion. So I discussed what would almost certainly happen if he did sue. Which he won't, because he isn't a moron.

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gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That doesn't even mention Alonso... :\


Haha I thought the same :D

marwood82 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> phantaman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Nickv Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > You're hopeless...
> > >
> > > PROVE that Alonso knew of it. Show evidence
> > > instead of repeating yourself all the time.
> > > Innocent until proven guilty is what most of
> > the
> > > systems around the world are based on. You
> have
> > > not proven that Alonso knew, so he is
> unguilty.
> > > End of.
> >
> > not need to prove anything... the evidences is
> > there and i prefer to analyze all the facts and
> > not ignore them
>
>
> please someone tell me there's a 'faceplant'
> smiley?


i was looking for the same thing :D

DaveEllis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, I did notice this. However discussing
> whether or not he CAN sue is a completely
> pointless task. Anyone can sue over anything. I
> can sue you if I wanted, for using the name
> Morbid. I have no reason to, and I won't win, but
> I can do it.

Precisely!

> So lets think about the situation. Massa goes to
> his lawyer. "I want to sue Piquet". "Why?" "He
> cost me the world championship by crashing". "Ok".
> "So what happened in the race?" "Piquet crashed, I
> ripped my fuel hose out and lost". "...you won't
> win" "oh "

As a layman and a fan of the sport I do find that line of thought most reasonable. But at the end of the day, I would not be so sure about that being the actual chain of events that would unfold.

The Lord works in mysterious ways, and having taken part in some lawsuits, all I can say, is that jurisprudence sometimes works in even stranger ways. Going to court is always a throw of the dice, if you are not outright dismissed by the court, and I don't see that happening. Besides, there is a legal precedent from English football, although it is probably more applicable if Ferrari suing.

> The topic of whether or not Massa can sue can be
> summed up with "yes". So it isn't even a topic of
> discussion. So I discussed what would almost
> certainly happen if he did sue. Which he won't,
> because he isn't a moron.

I doubt Massa will sue, but let us wait and see about that. He did get a rather hard strike to his head with a blunt object you know.

---

It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2009 06:11PM by Morbid.

phantaman Wrote:
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> [translate.google.com.br]
> l=pt-BR&js=y&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftazio.uol.com.br%2Ff-1
> %2Ftextos%2F13610%2F&sl=pt&tl=en&history_state0=


yeah!. you can't read!!!

The only one person who has mentioned Alonso is Piquet snr, and all he has said is that Alonso must have found it strange that he was stopping after lap 13 after starting so low down.

But Piquet is making an error as the fuel levels are given after quali so they had no idea he was going to break down or that Piquet would even crash.

I still think things do not add up at all, and I still think its a bit of a set up for losing his job. Had he kept the drive I bet none of this would have ever been said.

It probably Piquet snr getting his own back for Moreno getting sacked and replaced by MS

None of it adds up at all.

I think it adds up perfectly.

Renault were starting to put Flav under pressure..

As the great business man he is, he saw an opportunity to turn things around and used the clever mind of Pat to make it happen.

Besides that the thought of Piquet crashing was normal on race-day. It was a good plan.

If Piquet kept his ride your right, he would not have told but Flav should not have been so stupid to think Piquet would not tell. It is not something you would wish to keep secret is it. Especially when your boss isnt exactly your best friend !

I dont agree that Piquet performed the exercise for Flav but I agree that he came clean. I guess that's the part of me wanting Flav out anyway, he's a dishonest cheating c*nt. I put him in the same category as Todt! F1 is a better place without either of them.

---

"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

i have my doubts as well marcl, i mean, i'm not believeing that bs that Piquet out of a sudden felt guilty about what he did and decided to come clean.
i'ts been a year, he's been hiding this for 1 year, he's as much cheater as whoever ask him to cheat, he never felt guilty about it until he got sacked, and he's only doing this to "destroy Briatore" as he apparently told Eclestone and btw this words can be very usefull for Briatore lawyers i assume

Piquet choose the worst moment to get this out, his state of mind is questionable, as he just lost a ride, he's got no fatcs... (telemetry is always going to show unusual information when you slide out) and last year it was "unusual" for him to finish a race
i don't see why Briatore and Symonds leaving Renault makes them guilty...

now they can use everything they want to defend themselves

you know what they say, like father like son... if you can't trust Piquets snr, how could you Piquet jnr?

I just dont think Flavio would do this, or Pat.

But there are probably a number of drivers that are quite happy that he has been destroyed like he destroyed them.

I think that before Piquet Jr can be taken seriously as a driver, he needs to establish himself in his own right, independently of Piquet Snr. Basically he needs to distance himself from his dad in order to become his own person, which he's never been so far IMO, and he also needs to prove to himself and to everyone else that he can hack it as a driver on his own, in his own right.
But now, of course, he and his dad have got him into the position where the only chance he's ever likely to get in F1 now would surely require his dad to pull strings in order to get him a drive, even more than before. So he really is snookered now.

---

Apparently Piquet Sr brought it up to Mosley who said they could do something once Nelsinho came out and told the story, so I believe Nelson influenced his son there.

Had Nelsinho rejected the idea he could have been fired for not performing and he'd have no proof that he was asked to cause a crash. He was never in a good position.

Even if he got a drive he would never get backing and no firm would want to know.

Slash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> i don't see why Briatore and Symonds leaving
> Renault makes them guilty...
>

if Renault honestly believed they were innocent surely they'd be contesting the charges? or at least offering up some form of defence? No team would want to be associated with this.

also, as the stewards report states, if piquet was talking rubbish then it would have been very straightforward for Symmonds to deny the claims. he didn't, he refused to answer any of the questions relating to it.

whether or not they 'offically' confess, what has happend over the last few days combined with them not contesting the charge is surely only going to be viewed by the WMSC as an admission of guilt.

The problem is they can not prove that they did not give the order, and they can not prove Piquet had the idea.

Its a bit like the MS thing at Monaco when he parked the car, he says he did not and everyone said he did. How could he prove he did not? he could not so was put to the back of the grid.

Please tell me what the difference is here? had MS got away with it he would have been on pole and probably won the race. MS tried to change the result of quali so should he have just got away with being put to the back of the grid?

With the renualt they will never be able to prove Piquet did not crash on purpose, or whos idea it was.