Singapore GP Thread ***SPOILERS***

Yeah Ferrari are a complete joke, they have the finance but the wrong people for the job.

The three main things that Mclaren learned from the shummi-Brawn era: was consistency, efficientcy and realibility. Unfortuneatly this Ferrari team have forgotten all that and in any event are incapable of producing the same high level attained in those years.

Massa has inproved I.M.O he's just as quick as Kimi and Hamilton maybe even quicker but without doubt if the conditions are not right, he's proun to silly mistakes.

Having said that all drivers have had thier share of mistakes, even the great Shummi who after Senna I think was the most complete racer ever.

The thing is if Mclaren win this, I know that I am going to have to listen to that idiot James Allen spouting about what a 'God' Hamilton is for the next year, then there will be Lewis Hamilton action dolls in the shops and commercials about what cerial he eats before he sets off to win a grandprix because this is Britain and they are so desperate for a hero in formula 1, they would even exume the great Jim Clark.

The point is if maclaren get it, it will be because Ferrari gave it to them wich to be honest would serve them right because all they have done all season is deprive Massa and let the fans down.

Just a suggestion ...
Get rid of Kimmi because he can't be bothered put Alonso in the Ferrari

Get rid of Hiekki and put Vettel in the Macca and oh yeah, .......

Just get rid of Piquet put any one in the Renault ............



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2008 11:22AM by Isaint.

[www.autosport.com]

i get the feeling hes whinging because his team got screwed by the safety car, although they really screwed themselves

Sim

---

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"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole

That's fantastic logic, reminds me of someone here though.

The thing is what happened to them could have happened on any track. But I do sort of agree I dont think street tracks are the right way to go.

I agree the saftey car rule needs to be changed as it really is not fair.

Did you see the speed that alonso and the rbr cars were closing up to the field after their pit stops? they were at full speed and the reason why they dont let people pit is to stop that so it clearly does not work.

Also there was a cock up anyway, not taking anything away from Nico here so please dont think that. Nico, Kubica and Massa should have all been informed of their penalties during the safety car period. Nico and Kubica should not have had the time to build up that gap to the field (Nico in particular). Before he pitted he was in 7th place I think, then he was leading thanks to the pit stop when the pits were shut. He was then able to pull a big enough gap to finish 2nd even with his penalty, so did the penalty work no. It took a long time to inform them and I think Nico got 6 laps on a clear track to build a gap.

Where as people like Massa, kimi, lewis etc all waited until the pits were open and as a result got stuck in traffic they could have just done what Nico did. But as I said they dont normally leave the penalties that late.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2008 04:14PM by marcl.

SexySam182 schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was thinking about the quality of the
> championship contenders this year. And the problem
> is that the top 2 teams have good, but not the
> best drivers. IMO the top 3 drivers in the field
> are Nando, Kubica and Vettel, and they just dont
> have the cars to do the job. Put it this way, if
> any of those 3 was in the Ferrari, providing the
> team didnt keep making monumental cockups, they
> would be runaway title winners.

Spot on.

Though Hamilton is pretty much the best driver out there at moments (think of Hockenheim, early Monza stages) but sometimes he can mess up big big big time (Bahrein, Montreal pits)

---

sasjag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [www.autosport.com]
>
> i get the feeling hes whinging because his team
> got screwed by the safety car, although they
> really screwed themselves.

Dead right and as a Ferrari fan .... I can tell you he needs to concentrate on employing people that can do the job instead of whinging over stuff that every other team has to deal with as well as Ferrari.

They're not up to it ... plain and simple. What? The driver is on the track for over an hour and the pit crew see him twice maybe three times in that period and your telling me they haven't practiced enough to get it right, they are the Laurel and Hardy of formula 1 they need to go back to the 27 year drought, maybe that will wake them up.

Lucas di Grassi has emerged as the leading contender to replace Nelson Piquet at Renault next year if the French car manufacturer decide to drop the Formula One rookie, autosport.com has learned.

Although Piquet has scored one podium finish with a fortunate second place in the German Grand Prix, he has been unable to find the pace to match the team's number one driver Fernando Alonso.

Piquet did not help his cause when he crashed out of the Singapore Grand Prix last weekend - although ironically his error played a key part in helping Alonso triumph.

Sources close to the team claim that Piquet has not done enough to justify a second season with the team, and his situation was not helped when di Grassi impressed Renault with a solid three-day run during the recent Jerez test.

It is understood di Grassi not only did well in terms of his overall speed in Jerez but also shone in the swift way he got up to speed, as well as his positive attitude towards the team.

kv88 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SexySam182 schreef:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I was thinking about the quality of the
> > championship contenders this year. And the
> problem
> > is that the top 2 teams have good, but not the
> > best drivers. IMO the top 3 drivers in the
> field
> > are Nando, Kubica and Vettel, and they just
> dont
> > have the cars to do the job. Put it this way,
> if
> > any of those 3 was in the Ferrari, providing
> the
> > team didnt keep making monumental cockups, they
> > would be runaway title winners.
>
> Spot on.
>
> Though Hamilton is pretty much the best driver out
> there at moments (think of Hockenheim, early Monza
> stages) but sometimes he can mess up big big big
> time (Bahrein, Montreal pits)


True, but would still add massa to the list and I don't agree that Hamilton is the best driver out there. Take away Ferrari's cock-ups and guess who would be leading the Championship by a country mile ... and it wouldn't
be Hamilton. He's had better and more consistent support from his team that's all.
Pound for Pound the the four drivers mentioned above are about the best I.M.O

Isaint schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kv88 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SexySam182 schreef:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I was thinking about the quality of the
> > > championship contenders this year. And the
> > problem
> > > is that the top 2 teams have good, but not
> the
> > > best drivers. IMO the top 3 drivers in the
> > field
> > > are Nando, Kubica and Vettel, and they just
> > dont
> > > have the cars to do the job. Put it this way,
> > if
> > > any of those 3 was in the Ferrari, providing
> > the
> > > team didnt keep making monumental cockups,
> they
> > > would be runaway title winners.
> >
> > Spot on.
> >
> > Though Hamilton is pretty much the best driver
> out
> > there at moments (think of Hockenheim, early
> Monza
> > stages) but sometimes he can mess up big big
> big
> > time (Bahrein, Montreal pits)
>
>
> True, but would still add massa to the list and I
> don't agree that Hamilton is the best driver out
> there. Take away Ferrari's cock-ups and guess who
> would be leading the Championship by a country
> mile ... and it wouldn't
> be Hamilton. He's had better and more consistent
> support from his team that's all.
> Pound for Pound the the four drivers mentioned
> above are about the best I.M.O

Hmmm I guess I wasn't clear enough. I don't think overall, Hamilton is the best out there, but he has got his moments of pure brilliance, that no-one can equal. So he's not the best in total, as he's not capable of being as consistent every time. Same goes for Massa, who can be unbeatable one race, and then extremely stupid driving in the next one.

And well, think of this: the 2 drivers that are now battling for the title, have shown some of the worst displays of all drivers this season:
- Hamilton's rookie mistake in Montreal and his horrible race in Bahrein
- Massa's appalling races in Melbourne and in Silverstone.
One of those 2 is going to be this year's champion, which is really strange.

But then, look back at their best races:
- Hamilton: Monza, Silverstone, Hockenheim
- Massa: Bahrein, Montreal, Valencia
Those races have been really been champion drives

---

kv88 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Isaint schreef:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > kv88 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > SexySam182 schreef:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > I was thinking about the quality of the
> > > > championship contenders this year. And the
> > > problem
> > > > is that the top 2 teams have good, but not
> > the
> > > > best drivers. IMO the top 3 drivers in the
> > > field
> > > > are Nando, Kubica and Vettel, and they just
> > > dont
> > > > have the cars to do the job. Put it this
> way,
> > > if
> > > > any of those 3 was in the Ferrari,
> providing
> > > the
> > > > team didnt keep making monumental cockups,
> > they
> > > > would be runaway title winners.
> > >
> > > Spot on.
> > >
> > > Though Hamilton is pretty much the best
> driver
> > out
> > > there at moments (think of Hockenheim, early
> > Monza
> > > stages) but sometimes he can mess up big big
> > big
> > > time (Bahrein, Montreal pits)
> >
> >
> > True, but would still add massa to the list and
> I
> > don't agree that Hamilton is the best driver
> out
> > there. Take away Ferrari's cock-ups and guess
> who
> > would be leading the Championship by a country
> > mile ... and it wouldn't
> > be Hamilton. He's had better and more
> consistent
> > support from his team that's all.
> > Pound for Pound the the four drivers mentioned
> > above are about the best I.M.O
>
> Hmmm I guess I wasn't clear enough. I don't think
> overall, Hamilton is the best out there, but he
> has got his moments of pure brilliance, that
> no-one can equal. So he's not the best in total,
> as he's not capable of being as consistent every
> time. Same goes for Massa, who can be unbeatable
> one race, and then extremely stupid driving in the
> next one.
>
> And well, think of this: the 2 drivers that are
> now battling for the title, have shown some of the
> worst displays of all drivers this season:
> - Hamilton's rookie mistake in Montreal and his
> horrible race in Bahrein
> - Massa's appalling races in Melbourne and in
> Silverstone.
> One of those 2 is going to be this year's
> champion, which is really strange.
>
> But then, look back at their best races:
> - Hamilton: Monza, Silverstone, Hockenheim
> - Massa: Bahrein, Montreal, Valencia
> Those races have been really been champion drives


what did Massa do at Montreal? he was no where all weekend.

The 4 drivers of McLaren and Ferrari have had a very irregular season. Lewis is doing, in general, worse than last year but his rivals are doing even worse than him. Although I don't like the guy,
he did a great debut season, very regular and consistent but this year he has done a lot of errors and sometimes his pace is quite poor despite full support of the team (Kovy doesn't seem to be racing at McLaren, he has never had a chance of a good race).

If Ferrari (or Kimi, in fact) had a good season, the championship would be over. But he is absolutely lost...(I miss 2005 Kimi, that one would be almost champion).

Which is why i said had alonso been at mclaren he would already be world champ.

Pound for pound he is the best driver out there.

Ali you are right, kimi for me is not the same man from 2005.

I find it it dificult to give a veridict like that. We don't know what's happening really with Kimi. I'd rather believe he is just having issues with the car or something in that level. But it has indeed been some time since we saw a performance from Kimi like the ones he put in 2005. If he were driving like that today, I bet he would be closing the championship next race if not already. His drive in Singapore did remind me a bit of his drives in 2005 though...coming from far behind and then all of a sudden he is in a good point scoring position.

I also can´t be sure that Alonso would be doing so well at McLaren today...he is a guy that needs a good atmosphere to be well...we remember last year how he was making silly mistakes, but then this year is doing some great drives again.

Ali Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The 4 drivers of McLaren and Ferrari have had a
> very irregular season. Lewis is doing, in general,
> worse than last year but his rivals are doing even
> worse than him. Although I don't like the guy,
> he did a great debut season, very regular and
> consistent but this year he has done a lot of
> errors and sometimes his pace is quite poor
> despite full support of the team (Kovy doesn't
> seem to be racing at McLaren, he has never had a
> chance of a good race).

But last year, Lewis wasn't that big in the UK media, however now he's a male version of a WAG. He's letting it go to his head

massa could quite easily be leading the championship by 15 or so points. but he isnt.

ferrari need 3 1-2's now or its all over.

why did massa go all the way to the end of the pitlane before stopping? unless he wasnt aware.

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rapid_f1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> massa could quite easily be leading the
> championship by 15 or so points. but he isnt.
>
> ferrari need 3 1-2's now or its all over.

I know 2007 isn't going to happen again, but Raikkonen was something like 17 points down on Hamilton with 2 races to go. 7 points with 3 races to go isn't exactly a chasm, especially with Massa driving so beautifully.

Fact of the matter is, 'all' Ferrari need is one 1-2, and it's in their hands.

It's clearly advantage Hamilton, but Ferrari's race pace at Singapore was bordering on frightening. Kimi was closing at 4-7 tenths per lap once the stint got underway, and Massa was continuing to pull away with bits of someone elses car jammed in his. And Massa can draw on the help of Raikkonen, while McLaren's use of Kovalainen, going on recent GPs, can only be extremely limited.

rapid_f1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> why did massa go all the way to the end of the
> pitlane before stopping? unless he wasnt aware.

Can you imagine the outcry if he'd pulled up in another team's pit area... especially after already pulling out with half his garage attached and into vicinity of Sutil once more.

That and by going to the end of the pitlane, he minimized the damage to Kimi's race too...if he had stopped right after, Kimi would have to have waited a lot longer.

Yeah the Ferrari has definitely found more performance .. how it will translate itself in the next three races is another thing.
As for Kimi backing Massa .... forget it. He has never been a team player and he can't be bothered. The truth is he can't drive the car. Where as Massa seems to drive it straight out the box, Kimi has to wait for heat in the tyres, heat in the breaks, heat in the track. Look appart from singapore the race is always over by the time he get's going. The ferrari has always been a difficult car to drive with it's longer wheel base and the way the chassis uses the tyre, as apposed to the Mclaren wich is basically designed like an over powered cart. With it's shorter wheel base.

Massa has been with the Ferrari a longer time than Kimi but he ( Kimi ) also quiet adamantly refused to be advised by M. Shumacher over the car and the team.
So now, we see the result.

Isaint Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah the Ferrari has definitely found more
> performance .. how it will translate itself in the
> next three races is another thing.
> As for Kimi backing Massa .... forget it. He has
> never been a team player and he can't be bothered.
> The truth is he can't drive the car. Where as
> Massa seems to drive it straight out the box, Kimi
> has to wait for heat in the tyres, heat in the
> breaks, heat in the track. Look appart from
> singapore the race is always over by the time he
> get's going. The ferrari has always been a
> difficult car to drive with it's longer wheel base
> and the way the chassis uses the tyre, as apposed
> to the Mclaren wich is basically designed like an
> over powered cart. With it's shorter wheel base.

But isn't F2008 a short wheel based car? I certainly read somewhere that it was.