Singapore GP Thread ***SPOILERS***

Rodrigo007 Wrote:
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> just good points to show he makes good comebacks
> after these kind of results


You can always spin a bad fact into a good one if you put your mind into it. But in the end, all things considered, Massa put at least 8 points to waste on Malaysia, points that could have meant he would be on the lead right now.

Comments...

1) Piquet: The crappiness of the track was shown by its 438398392 bumps distributed around its layout, even Kubica complained like hell about them. Piquet was fueled for a 1 stopper, and heavier which made the bumps even worse (brilliant Renault race engineers... crap) and when he got into a bump, he was a passenger and he couldn't do anything. But still he apologized which was good (unlike a certain Ferrari arrogant prick who will never admit that the Sepang spin was HIS error). Piquet Bashers certainly loved it but they will swallow their own words when we see him on the grid @ Melbourne'09. He'll be there so please, shutup and accept that. Even Rosberg had his fair share of mistakes, so did Heikki. Rookies are like that. You can't expect everyone to be like Lewis first year in F1, in which he was lucky.

2) Alonso: The guy is amazing, magic. I hope he gets a top car next season, I want to see him winning the title again. I'm glad he won, he had one hell of a year.

3) Rosberg: Unlucky, but still a great performance. Good overtake to get out of the "Trulli Train" (Another reason for not liking this track). Overall, he sucked this season, could've been better. The williams isnt as bad as he thinks it is. Alonso would do miracles in it too.

4) Lewis: The future 2008 World Champion. Enough said, Ferrari took it out of their hands in 2007, now they are giving it back.

5) Honda: At least Jenson finished, great! His teammate was useless, loved it when he retired. But Honda still sucks and will suck in 2009 too. Jenson needs to leave Honda for a better team with a good car.

6) BMW Sauber: Useless. Their car isnt a top 3 car anymore, Kubica has every right to be complaining. He could be in the title battle but the car is letting him out of it. Shame. And Heidfeld needs to be kicked out. 3 years @ BMW and in less time Kubica won a race and did a pole for them. They should sign Alonso if they want to be a big threat for the 2009 title.

7) Heikki: Same car as Lewis but he can't produce the same performance? I won't count on him to be a top driver in F1...

8) Ferrari: The clowns of the weekend, laughed real hard at them. I loved the pitstop epic fail, even without a fuel rig failure he'd be still penalised with a DT for an unsafe release ahead of Sutil, and again, he did it when he spun before the grandstand tunnel forcing Sutil (ooohhh!) to crash. That guy (an arrogant prick, did i mentioned it before?) is a danger to the other drivers on track. And Kimi? He's not the famous Iceman anymore, his magic is gone and so are his chances to defend the title. Lewis pwned them flat and square!

9) The track: I said it before and I'll say it again. Night racing doesnt add anything to the race nor did to me. I'm against it. The track also looked crap at night. ALL THE DRIVERS - read the media - complained about bumps all over the track. Alonso complained about dark areas. I think that Kubica expects it to be resurfaced/smoothed. The kerbs were weak - there was one damaged on T10 exit. The marshalls were useless - looked like they didnt had any training for it - when pushing the Honda car. Also, the pitlane entry/exit was still dangerous, at a point that DC almost lost it when Alonso left the pits right infront of him, it could have been a big crash but luckily it didnt happened. T10 kerbs are ridiculous and led to Kimi's crash. The race was only good because the SC periods spiced up the things a bit. Otherwise it'd have been another Valencia bore-fest. The onboards are boring - the track offers no challenge at all for the drivers, apart of the bumps. I'd rather see F1 coming back to tracks like Zandvoort or Rio.

Another bore-fest awaits us @ Shanghai and Fuji... at least the Interlagos race will be somewhat good and Melbourne'09, slick tyres, new aerodynamics are coming. Hopefully 2009 cars will be good to show that Barcelona ISNT A CRAP TRACK.

---

and when he got into a bump, he was a passenger and he couldn't do anything.

Well nobody elese spun there during the entire course of the weekend, which makes him the only man in the history of the world to ever have an accident at that corner. And it is quite obvious what happened too - he stamped on the gas, lost the rear end, backed it into the outside wall then came accross and hit the inside. Bump or not, he knew the circuit and knew what to expect. If he crashed and nobody else did, it says more about him than the corner.

ALL THE DRIVERS - read the media - complained about bumps all over the track.

I suggest you "read the media".

Jenson Button (the man you just praised - The circuit is interesting to drive and it's very bumpy which adds to the excitement as the bumps bounce the car all over the place

Also, the pitlane entry/exit was still dangerous, at a point that DC almost lost it when Alonso left the pits right infront of him

Hilariously, it is dangerous in the same way that the Interlagos pit entry had to be changed. Cars going fast on the racing line would meet cars travelling slower into the pit entry. It'll be changed for next year, and all will be fine again. No signs collapsed onto the road, and they didn't accidently flood the course with sewage run off, and no teams were held up at gun point. So overall, a big success.

I'd rather see F1 coming back to tracks like Zandvoort or Rio.

If you dipped a broom handle in brake fluid, shoved the end up my arse and put me in a moving lift, I'd design a better track on the walls with my own anal blood than Rio and Zandvoort.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2008 04:20AM by DaveEllis.

DaveEllis Wrote:
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> and when he got into a bump, he was a passenger
> and he couldn't do anything.
>
> Well nobody elese spun there during the entire
> course of the weekend, which makes him the only
> man in the history of the world to ever have an
> accident at that corner. And it is quite obvious
> what happened too - he stamped on the gas, lost
> the rear end, backed it into the outside wall then
> came accross and hit the inside. Bump or not, he
> knew the circuit and knew what to expect. If he
> crashed and nobody else did, it says more about
> him than the corner.
>

Say what you want. without the bump there he wouldnt have stamped on gas in first place.

> ALL THE DRIVERS - read the media - complained
> about bumps all over the track.
>
> I suggest you "read the media".
>
> Jenson Button (the man you just praised - The
> circuit is interesting to drive and it's very
> bumpy which adds to the excitement as the bumps
> bounce the car all over the place
>

He's just doing the infamous "PR". Alonso, DC, Kubica, others complained about it. I suggest you to read all, not just the few ones just doing PR towards the track. Well, thanks for showing the quote, it just adds more reasons for me to stop supporting him. How in earth a driver would like to drive in a bumpy track and still find it exciting? It's annoying and painful to drive in a such track, now we know why he sucks...

> Also, the pitlane entry/exit was still dangerous,
> at a point that DC almost lost it when Alonso left
> the pits right infront of him
>
> Hilariously, it is dangerous in the same way that
> the Interlagos pit entry had to be changed. Cars
> going fast on the racing line would meet cars
> traveling slower into the pit entry. It'll be
> changed for next year, and all will be fine
> again.
>

Like I said, I dont care about Interlagos. I'm from Rio, not Sao Paulo. Jacarepagua's pit lane is safer than theirs.

> I'd rather see F1 coming back to tracks like
> Zandvoort or Rio.
>
> If you dipped a broom in brake fluid, shoved the
> other end up my arse and put me in a moving lift,
> I'd design a better track on the walls with my own
> anal blood than Rio and Zandvoort.

I doubt it.

---

I actually agree with you Bruno, except point 9 - I think it was fantastic.

oh and Barcelona will never be a great track until they demolish it and re-build a new track!

Ferrari and Heikki were certainly epic failures... simple as

---

2013 - Nando must come through..

He's just doing the infamous "PR". Alonso, DC, Kubica, others complained about it. I suggest you to read all, not just the few ones just doing PR towards the track. Well, thanks for showing the quote, it just adds more reasons for me to stop supporting him. How in earth a driver would like to drive in a bumpy track and still find it exciting? It's annoying and painful to drive in a such track, now we know why he sucks...

I did read them all actually. Opinions on the circuit from every driver can be found here. I am not suggesting nobody complained about the bumps of course - that would be a fabrication of the truth. I am just refuting the suggestion that they all complained about the bumps - which isn't true. Overall only a handful not many seemed to truly hate the bumps, and only mentioned them as an observation. If Jenson said that for PR Reasons, one would think that Rubens would have done the same, being under the same PR orders, which wasn't the case. Sorry, but not "all" drivers complained about the bumps.

Say what you want. without the bump there he wouldnt have stamped on gas in first place.

A slightly illogical point to make, but I'll address it anyway. If there was no bump, why would he have not stamped on the gas? Bump or not, he crashed where nobody else did. Piquet may, if he is lucky, be on the grid in 2009. But it'll be a Force India.

Like I said, I dont care about Interlagos. I'm from Rio, not Sao Paulo. Jacarepagua's pit lane is safer than theirs.

Yes, but Singapores circuit isn't in a state of disrepair, has big name series coming to it, and isn't being demolished to bid on an event which may never even happen.

Face it - Singapore proved you wrong. They built an outstanding facility, with only a couple of teething problems, which for a country which has never hosted a GP before is fantastic given the engineering task they took on. The lighting was perfect, the circuit was brilliant and the only things which can be criticised is the pit lane, the chicane and 1 loose kerb - which all will be fixed for next year. Singapore just solidified its place on the Forumla One calender by providing outstanding facilities and a track which brings out the best in drivers.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2008 04:32AM by DaveEllis.

DaveEllis Wrote:
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> Face it - Singapore proved you wrong. They built
> an outstanding facility, with only a couple of
> teething problems, which for a country which has
> never hosted a GP before is fantastic given the
> engineering task they took on. The lighting was
> perfect, the circuit was brilliant and the only
> things which can be criticised is the pit lane,
> the chicane and 1 loose kerb - which all will be
> fixed for next year. Singapore just solidified its
> place on the Forumla One calender by providing
> outstanding facilities and a track which brings
> out the best in drivers.

Hmm... nope. proved me right. bumpy, the Safety Cars saved it from being boring, the night racing didnt added anything to me and there are better places to race around the world than just Singapore. night or day it would have been the same thing. I prefer day races. The onboards were bloody boring, not a single challenge on track. Even Hungaroring would have been better from an onboard point of view.

Definately a crap track in my view, joining Valencia, Bahrain, Sepang, Shanghai, Fuji...

Frankly. We disagree, end of it then.

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2008 05:40AM by Bruninho.

Why did they not look at Massa causing Sutil to crash out the race? Sutil has said Massa pulled away infront of him after his spin and to avoid a crash he crashed.

I am sure that massa should have got a drive through or a 10 place drop at the next race.

I know most of you wont agree but just giving my view.

Your a maniac.

Seek help.

And destroy your computer.

---

marcl Wrote:
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> Why did they not look at Massa causing Sutil to
> crash out the race? Sutil has said Massa pulled
> away infront of him after his spin and to avoid a
> crash he crashed.
>
> I am sure that massa should have got a drive
> through or a 10 place drop at the next race.
>
> I know most of you wont agree but just giving my
> view.


Had Massa sat still then Sutil will still have hit him. So it didn't matter.

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Sutil would have passed him like the others did, but as massa was there he turned right to avoid him and hit the wall. It looks that way on the replay. Sutil seems to be going ok until he sees massa and take action to avoid hitting him.

You could be right though just seems strange that other cars passed ok before sutil got there.

Despite being a Renault supporter I have to say Piquet sucks. Singapore was an awesome race and to say that Piquet's race was ruined by Renault race engineers is crap. Others ran heavy, yet Piquet is the only one who lost control and crashed out. I didn't see Trulli or Fisi's lose it. And to say Kovy isn't any good is also crap, he may not be as good as Lewis but everyone knows that Lewis is McLaren's #1 driver since Melbourne.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2008 09:32AM by Renault#1Fan.

Kovy had a damaged floor after his 1st lap tap with Kubica and he also had to queue in the pit behind Lewis during the safety car.

Bruninho, the kerb which fell apart was at turn 7, not turn 10. It played no part in Kimi's accident.



marcl Wrote:
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> Sutil would have passed him like the others did,
> but as massa was there he turned right to avoid
> him and hit the wall. It looks that way on the
> replay. Sutil seems to be going ok until he sees
> massa and take action to avoid hitting him.
>
> You could be right though just seems strange that
> other cars passed ok before sutil got there.


Sutil went in way too hot, just like Massa did. If there had been yellow flags (don't know if there was at the time, and probably unlikely, given the speed at which the marshals reacted over the weekend), then he should be given a bloody good talking down.



marcl Wrote:
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> I did not know massa had a flat tyre as well
> before the 2nd stop until I read the reviews.


Thought it was an obvious issue when he came in immediately on Kubica sailing past him and then pulling away as rapidly as he did, that being an obvious tyre issue when they sent him back out without doing anything else.

Then again, I did see some logic in sticking him on a heavy fuel load for strategy reasons and crossing their fingers. Their race was shot anyway. Might as well gamble on a safety car which would hoist them straight back into the points, and ironically back ahead of Alonso, Rosberg and Hamilton, with just Trulli and Fisichella ahead of him I think (don't think anyone else was fuelled to the end at that point).

Safety car did come, but only after everyone had made their 2nd stop.

Nothing went right for Massa. He drove really well early on, then other than that single error, did everything he could do and for so little reward. His head went, but even had it not, he'd still have been in the final positions. He's still been the best of the 3 real championship contenders.

Kimi on the other hand was interesting. Probably protecting his tyres early on, then just started blitzing everyone. He was spectacular to watch. Then did well to get into 5th (quite an achievement considering the disarray at his first pitstop!), then made a rookie mistake.


WTF is going on with Heikki. McLaren must be having doubts about renewing his contract so early. Not having one on the table might have had him getting his head down a bit. At the moment he's nowhere. He finished 2nd at Monza, true, but was beaten by a kid in a Minardi and simply profited from everyone else falling apart at Hungary. People keep talking about how Kimi has [cock mode]lost his mojo[/cock mode], but at least Kimi's coming alive at some point in the race.


Another James Allen cockup I noticed on watching the race again last night (I enjoyed it that much!). After Bourdais had gone down the escape road, he said Bourdais had experience racing under lights, as he'd done it twice at Housten.... in IRL. Now I've not seen much American single seater racing since CART started falling apart, so I may be about to make quite the cockup myself...... but... WTF. This is a bloke who spent most of the 90's in America working in Indycar!

Gav sorry to say that I listen to ITV and they said he was out of fuel.

Yes I also thought the same when James Allen made that comment about IRL.

There were yellow flags there, well I assume there were as Alonso went passed there before Sutil did.

Maybe Sutil did go in to the corner to fast but you can see him turn right to avoid massa. It is a blind corner though so massa would have had no idea a car was coming anyway and there was no one telling him when to go.

Maybe I was a bit harsh.

Massa is driving well at the moment but we did see yet again when he is not at the front he struggles to get passed people. Kimi is making mistakes that he has never made in F1. For years and years Kimi did not spin out of races did not crash into walls. This year I think he has made more errors than he has in all his years in F1 put together.

As for Piquet I am shocked anyway that he is still driving for Renault.

Mclaren need Nico what a great team that would be. But I still think the mclaren does not suit him and it wont be until next year that we really see what Kovy can do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2008 10:23AM by marcl.

marcl Wrote:
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> Maybe Sutil did go in to the corner to fast but
> you can see him turn right to avoid massa. It is
> a blind corner though so massa would have had no
> idea a car was coming anyway and there was no one
> telling him when to go.

No point in turning right to avoid a car that wasn't there. He'll have turned right in an attempt not to bust the suspension. Obviously it didn't, but it's standard practice.



I still think Kimi's a top level driver. You don't just lose that, and you can see his raw pace is still there. When he gets his head down, there's few that are able to match him. That's still his problem though, getting his head down. I don't believe half the things I read about him only waking up towards the end of a race, it's just that he's got cars in front of him so can't show that pace. Whether he still has a problem with the tyres on single laps, or it's a mental hurdle he has to overcome, I'm sure when he's fighting for himself again next year, he'll show he's got more than 1 title in him. The winter can't come quick enough for him.

Sutil went in way too hot, just like Massa did. If there had been yellow flags (don't know if there was at the time, and probably unlikely, given the speed at which the marshals reacted over the weekend), then he should be given a bloody good talking down.

You may haver noticed they have flag light boards posted at marshal points around the circuit, which race control have full control over. So it didn't matter if the marshalls had a flag out, the boards would be lit.

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gav Wrote:
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> Sutil went in way too hot, just like Massa did. If
> there had been yellow flags (don't know if there
> was at the time, and probably unlikely, given the
> speed at which the marshals reacted over the
> weekend), then he should be given a bloody good
> talking down.

Looking at that yeah Sutil was turning full left and basically understeered off I think, but I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't yellow flags, the marshalls at the race seemed bloody useless from what I saw, Nelson Piquet's accident was a prime example, no marshalls showed up at his car for a long time, he was sitting in his car for a while and even ran across the track back to safety before anyone showed up, whereas at Monaco they would have been there in a matter of seconds, getting the crane on the go and hoisting the git out of there in the time it took them to get there

DaveEllis Wrote:
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> You may haver noticed they have flag light boards
> posted at marshal points around the circuit, which
> race control have full control over. So it didn't
> matter if the marshalls had a flag out, the boards
> would be lit.

If thats the case wouldn't it have been linked up to the FOM TV coverage? as on that if you watch the realtime replay the lap counter in the middle where it usually turns yellow to indicate a yellow flag situation didn't change, until shortly after Sutil went into the wall


PSN/Xbox 360 ID - Ianwoollam



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2008 10:35AM by Ianwoollam.

I think it's good to have bumpy tracks. F1 drivers should be challenged on a circuit. Easy tracks without bumps are mostly boring races. Track surfaces shouldn't be smooth. How's a smooth track challenging? It won't, because you know it's gonna be piss easy because there are no bumps to make mistakes on.


7) Heikki: Same car as Lewis but he can't produce the same performance? I won't count on him to be a top driver in F1...

Ha, the irony...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2008 10:33AM by Nickv.

Bruninho Wrote:
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> That guy (an arrogant prick, did i
> mentioned it before?)

I dare say that you probably have.

However have you actually ever met Felipe Massa? Somehow I doubt you have. I on the other hand have on more than one occasion and I've found him to be one of the most friendly and open drivers in the paddock, where the majority of the winners will completely blank you, Massa does not, he is actually quite the gentleman just as is another one of your arrparnt disgraces, Rubens Barrichello. Nelsinho Piquet on the other hand completely blanks you.

It doesn't escape my notice for a man who has probably never met the guy and who even refuses to acknowledge that he has a name, then labels that man as a "arrogant prick". Yes that's quite rich. I could make a suggestion as to who really is the "arrogant prick", but I shall leave it hanging in the air.

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I was sceptical of the whole night race idea for F1 at first, but I have been completely converted. This was simply an awesome event. And as Brundle said the bumps just added to it, we want to see the drivers really work hard and the Singapore circuit delivered it spot on. I love this track, if someone wants a season of 18 Barcelona Grand Prix then they can have it it, I'll have Singapore please.