Belgium Grand Prix 2008 ***SPOILERS***

tbh yes the penalty is deserved... Hamsterboy only just let Kimi through-i'd say Kimi's rear has only just gotten past ham's front before he nailed the throttle again...

but WTF is Kimi doing at turn 1?? He was driving like a granny! i personally think Hamsterboy did well not to run into the back of him...

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Team Japan Owner - GPGNC

From that onboard it looks like Hamilton had enough room to just slow down and take turn 19(?) properly instead of cutting it.

DJSKYLINE schrieb:
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> From that onboard it looks like Hamilton had
> enough room to just slow down and take turn 19(?)
> properly instead of cutting it.

absolutely right

exactly, but he chose to cut across the chicane which didn't lose him as much time as staying on the track would have done, thereby meaning he did take an advantage from cutting.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

the problem was that he didn't lift... of course he could've taken the crner, he just needed to lift

i have an impression that this onboard was pretty much incriminating Lewis in the case ,stewards might've used this in justification, possibly!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2008 10:19PM by Rodrigo007.

Yes Trulli should have got a penalty for that but did not.

Lewis was 6 kph slower across the start finish line than kimi which showed he slowed down he simply out broke kimi into the 1st corner as kimi broke early due to the rain. Could lewis have slowed and not hit kimi who turned in? i dont know because we dont know how wet the track was and he could have locked a brake. He made a choice gave the place back and then passed and what ever people say kimi broke well early for the 1st corner if he had not done that lewis would not have passed. He did get an advantage thats for sure he made a pass but then going by rules he gave the place back.

The result of the race can not be changed as its a drive through penalty which would have been taken in the race had it no been so near the end.

Lewis would have got kimi sooner or later you could see how much faster he was and the fact that it did not change the outcome of the race. I find it harsh as lewis did give the place back and did slow down as the rules state you must, there is no rule saying you can not over take straight away or you must leave a car gap.

Kimi did a good job even though he crashed he did not just let Lewis pass, tbh I did not think Lewis would even risk it as he is not really racing kimi. Kimi has nothing to loose at all, him and lewis clash helps massa and kimi does not loose points to lewis.

Its done now anyway its harsh but by now we are used to it, this gives massa huge help as the gap is now 2 points not 8.

Tomorrow should be interesting with the Jackie Stewart comments. So far people are very split on what they saw today. For me as I said I think it was harsh and did not change the outcome of the race at all, all it done was hand 1st and 2nd to 2 drivers that were never in contention for them places. Kimi spun away the lead and then spun out the race.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2008 10:51PM by marcl.

Someone needs to stop David Croft from commentating next season. He's been fannying on as to why Hamilton shouldn't have gotten a penalty on 5 Live tonight. Fair enough, but his reasoning being that Hamilton just got a penalty for cutting the chicane. He's an idiot who shouldn't be anywhere near a microphone, and anyone watching GP2 this season will verify that.


brunoboi Wrote:
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> Lewis broke the rules yes, but he then rectified
> it by letting Kimi back through - had Lewis just
> kept his foot the floor and not let the Ferrari
> through then yes the penalty would be deserved but
> the fact that he consciously lifted off of the
> throttle and lost the advantage he had gained
> meant he gained NO ADVANTAGE!

You're quite blind, and clearly have only been reading selective stuff, so go and read what I've said in full, cos I can't be arsed to explain again as to HOW Hamilton gained from it.


AJTWWE Wrote:
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> You really believe that, if he had taken the
> chicane correctly meaning Kimi gave him enough
> room or he followed him behind you don't think he
> would of got him. Hamilton did everything right
> and the FIA is a disgrace and has been since the
> Massa/Alonso penalty at Monza back in 2006, that
> was a joke as is this!!!!

He would have overtaken him, but not in turn 1 unless Kimi cocked up. He would have lost a lot of momentum to Kimi, on the inside, on an off-camber corner, in a traction zone, in the wet with dry tyres. He'd have been an absolute minimum of 7 tenths down on Kimi, and that's assuming Kimi messed up the exit to a certain degree and Hamilton nailed it.


marcl Wrote:
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> He made a choice gave the place back and then passed
> and what ever people say kimi broke well early for the 1st
> corner if he had not done that lewis would not
> have passed.

Lewis was no more than half a car length behind Kimi before either car started braking. He fully intended to overtake into turn 1, regardless of what Kimi did. Premeditated from the chicane? Probably not, but in the heat of he moment, he let his ego get the better of him.

Hmmmmmm after seeing that onboard of Hamilton I'm starting to sway, the engine didn't sound like it even lifted, and been 6km down on engine speed, that really ain't much of a lift if he did. Its starting to look more like Hamilton was coming off the corner offline in the wet and was cautious on the power, resulting in Raikkonen able to catch up and overtake again. Didn't really get that view from the TV Camera at the side.


PSN/Xbox 360 ID - Ianwoollam

it's a real joke
the circus of formula 1!
fia rules again for ferrari for the most little thing; by example kimi cut at the t1 airpin went to the wall to get the most possible momentum into the straight and overtake hamilton

kimi had the full car ahead of hamilton in the straight he just started to loose it under braking like he did at monaco and at the end of the lap witch he regained the first place anyway... and spun(hamilton made him spin with his mind control :P that might be the illegal move)

was that rosberg or nakajima comming back on the track... I think that should have been the first case to look at; that was dangerous

if the fia penalise hamilton they should penalise everyone who did it at some point in the race 25 secs seems to be a pretty random number lol

PЯuИNИ



[prunn.wordpress.com]

Ianwoollam Wrote:
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> Hmmmmmm after seeing that onboard of Hamilton I'm
> starting to sway, the engine didn't sound like it
> even lifted, and been 6km down on engine speed,
> that really ain't much of a lift if he did. Its
> starting to look more like Hamilton was coming off
> the corner offline in the wet and was cautious on
> the power, resulting in Raikkonen able to catch up
> and overtake again. Didn't really get that view
> from the TV Camera at the side.

It's irrelevant if Hamilton lifted or not. Had he backed off more, or slowed through the off-track excursion, he'd have got away with it no problem. It's how he gained as to why he got penalised. He got an advantage through cutting the course, allowing him to be in a position to challenge Raikkonen in turn 1, which he wouldn't have been in a position to do if he'd had just braked in the chicane instead of turning left.

For the record, Ferrari didn't prompt the FIA into protesting the move.

This is not what sport or F1 is meant to be. Winning a race should be a black-and-white business. The driver of the car that crosses the line in first place is the winner and the glory is his. End of story. It is a sacrosanct principle and any violation of it can only be considered - let alone applied - in the most extreme of circumstances and with the supported of the most overwhelming weight of evidence. The results of a grand prix should be determined, like in any other sport, in its sporting arena, not in unseen backrooms by unknown officials. For that is politics, not sport, not F1.

This is the void and guiding principle that the race stewards of the Belgian GP leapt over - by their own impetus, it should be noted, for there was no protest made by Ferrari or any of McLaren's other competitors - when they delivered their notification of 'an investigation into an incident between cars 1 and 22' just at the moment Lewis Hamilton was being physically blocked by a Spa race official from celebrating victory with his McLaren engineers. That moment in the pits - the pits, a jobsworth denying the appreciation of sporting achievement - would gain a poignant resonance as night fell. Winning the already-quickly-forgotten Greatest Grand Prix in Living Memory will be the cause of obituaries rather than celebration.

The blurring of the distinction between politics and sport in F1 had already become a popular lament long before Sunday. F1 is a spectacularly political sport. Yet rarely, if ever, has it made such a leap from one to the other based on so little. For where is the justification in stripping Hamilton of victory? No, do not misread 'where' for 'what' nor confuse the plea for justification as the herald for further debate on whether Hamilton gained an advantage after he cut the chicane. Instead, consider the lack of justification cited by the stewards, who, remaining cloaked in anonymity, are still yet to offer any explanation for their punishment other than cite the terms of the offence and announce its punishment. Not a word of insight has been forthcoming, nor a single piece of telemetry or testimony in support.

Given their absolute abuse of sport's most absolute principle, that silence is deafening. If the decision to strip Hamilton of his victory was to be made then the evidence had to be overwhelming, so clinical that it prevented any dissent. That none has been supplied, that identifying the winner of the Belgian GP has been reduced to a matter of debate, lays the sport bare.

And the debate will rage on, as perplexing as well as an unacceptable state of affairs given that the terms of the debate are unknown. For what is it that Hamilton has been found guilty of? Observing, as per the 30-word press release the FIA filed announcing that the result of the Belgian GP was no longer the result of the Belgian GP, that Hamilton was guilty of "cutting the chicane" tells us nothing that none of us have not already seen. The stewards - and their Ferrari-supporting apologists - might well retort that they do not have to provide any commentary other than a verdict. But that misses the point and avoids entirely the repercussions and significance of a decision which makes explanation essential.

Is it that Hamilton has been punished for deliberately seeking an advantage by deliberately steering over the chicane? Or is it for inadvertently gaining an advantage by avoiding an avoidable accident? Is it for gaining an advantage but not satisfactorily or adequately surrendering it? Or is it that he has been found guilty of exploiting an advantage that was neither his by right nor no longer in his possession, deemed to have broken the spirit of the rules if not the wording?

Or is it due to motives altogether different, altogether more political? It must be, for, in the absence of all other explanation, only that suspicion can begin to explain the desecration of what was once a sport.

Just found out about this, I am not a fan of Hamilton but this is wrong. And this to me shows no doubt that the FIA and stewards will do anything to help Ferrari. And to say that Ferrari didn't prompt the FIA into protesting is BULLSHIT! Because Ferrari are liars!

the worst I saw... kimi's car was ok, It doesnt look like the suspension was damaged after he crashed
he could have gone to the pits, put a new front wing, interm tyres and still finish on the podium
instead he just gave it up!!

PЯuИNИ



[prunn.wordpress.com]

gav Wrote:
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> It's irrelevant if Hamilton lifted or not.

I would have thought it was, I mean if he had no intention of letting him back past and Raikkonen just got through on his own accord then the FIA would look more harshly on it and McLaren's "He lifted off" defence for the appeal is completely shot


PSN/Xbox 360 ID - Ianwoollam



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2008 12:19AM by Ianwoollam.

Thank you gav and Muks_C being the voice of reason in what can only be described as a straight up pissing match between fanboys

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What I meant, and tried to go onto explain, was that it's not about whether he lifted or not, but whether he gained as a whole out of the situation.

@ prunn: the left rear was damaged. Rather too much negative camber. Plus, I wouldn't want to be reversing onto the track at a wet spa just after Blanchimont!

&feature=related

1 min in.

This is why the FIA are a joke.

edit - ive said it before with the massa-sutil pit thing, if the FIA were consistant then I would not care.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2008 12:36AM by chet.

prunn Wrote:
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> it's a real joke
> the circus of formula 1!
> fia rules again for ferrari for the most little
> thing; by example kimi cut at the t1 airpin went
> to the wall to get the most possible momentum into
> the straight and overtake hamilton

go look at it again, Kimi lost time going wide and loosing traction, he got behind hamilton because your idol spun, had Kimi not run wide, he would've overtaken him before Eau Rougue

Renault#1Fan Wrote:
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> Just found out about this, I am not a fan of
> Hamilton but this is wrong. And this to me shows
> no doubt that the FIA and stewards will do
> anything to help Ferrari.

you people (Ferrari haters) have this in your mind somehow, wasn't it in 2005 that FIA changed the rules to stop Shumacher and Ferrari from winning?
Mclaren shouldn't be racing anyways, they where supposed to be kicked out of this years championship for spying on Ferrari, yet again they run with a lot of stuff last year, like team orders at monaco, or Hamilton re-entry at the Nurburg GP, etc.. and this year as well, like Hamilton taking Kimi out on the pit at Canada, team orders at Hockenheim and Magny...

but still sometimes they can't get away with everything, and stewards are hard on them because they put themselves in that position with everything that happened last year, otherwise people would be saying that FIA let Mclaren do what they want

chet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>

&feature
> =related
>
> 1 min in.
>
> This is why the FIA are a joke.
>
> edit - ive said it before with the massa-sutil pit
> thing, if the FIA were consistant then I would not
> care.


sorry chet, but i see 2 times Kubica cutting the corner and gaining advantage, Felipe just returned the favour, the penlaty should've been given to Kubiça and not Massa

but he finished behind so..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2008 12:41AM by Slash.