Italian GP - Monza - Official Thread **SPOILERS**

I am not ruling out anything.

And it's not possible to say anything for certain based on what is available.

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This is the Massa onboard's lap:

[www.crazefiles.com]

So if the FIA really love Michael so much then why didn't they let him get away with what he did at Monaco?

Some of us arent saying its biast towards Schumacher. Some of us think this is just fixing the championship to get an exciting finish by penalising the guy in the lead.

Speaking of dodgy decisons does anyone remember back to Barcelona? Montoya beaches his car on the kerbs and no safety car was deployed. Why I here you ask. Well Alonso being on home soil and leading the race, having a safety car deployed would of seriously disadvantaged him. I don't see many people remembering that incident which clearly favoured Alonso.

2 completelty different sets of people are in charge of safety car, and decsions such as what happened today (or at monaco) so that point holds no water in the slightest.

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And it's not possible to say anything for certain based on what is available.

Then if it can not be proven, a penalty is wrong. It is not up to Alonso to proven himself innocent, it is up to the FIA (or stewards of the course) to prove him guilty. If they can not be sure, it is not fair to give a penalty.

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Available to us i meant.

Brain fart again.

The stewards certainly have more evidence available but without knowing what it is it's impossible to cry fix.

As an aside, years of single lap, one car qualifying have really spoiled the drivers.

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Totally, years ago drivers were constantly having their fast laps spoiled by slower drivers with no penalty handed out, todays decision looks draconian by contrast.

But it is possible to cry fix. If i go through every qualifying session this year and find out at every point where cars are less than 2 seconds apart, i can legitimatly ask why a penalty was not handed out to the car infront. That is exactly what happened in this situation.

It is such a stupid decsion that commentators around the world didnt even think, nevermind bring up the point of Alonso being in the way. When it was announced Massa had put in a complaint, forums around the world posted "lol", and then suddenly we have this?

If you want a perfectly clear track, have single lap qualifying again. But with more than 1 car on the track at a time you WILL get situations like this, and to a certain extent, the drivers should just deal with it.

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Symonds furious with Alonso penalty

By Jonathan Noble Saturday, September 9th 2006, 19:12 GMT

Formula One has become too 'politically correct' and the stewards are making inconsistent judgements, a furious Pat Symonds said this evening following the decision to penalise Fernando Alonso and demote him to 10th place on the grid.

The Spaniard had his three fastest laps of the final session in qualifying removed by the stewards, who said he had impeded Ferrari's Felipe Massa in the session today. As a result, Alonso has been demoted from fifth to 10th.

Yet Renault's director of engineering Symonds firmly believes Alonso did not impede the Brazilian, and in fact helped him gain time by getting a tow from the Renault car.

"I don't understand the penalty, because we don't feel we impeded him," Symonds said. "This is a circuit where we are always trying to get a tow - especially in qualifying. Massa was 100 metres behind Alonso, so he got a nice tow, and I don't see it as a hindrance.

"I looked at Ferrari's telemetry, and [Massa] gained time on the back straight and was quicker into Parabolica than before. He lifted in the middle of the corner. To me, it looked like a mistake but he claimed he was losing downforce."

But Symonds was particularly vocal about the influx of penalties handed out this season for blocking in qualifying, and warned that Formula One is stepping away from its core appeal as a racing series.

"It seems that we have forgotten what qualifying was like up until 2003, when half the field complained of traffic," the Briton said. "We seem to have forgotten what racing is about.

"We are so politically correct now, and I don't know what is coming next. Maybe indicators, to see whether drivers want to go left or right?"

He further criticised the stewards' inconsistency, claiming rivals Ferrari have been getting away unpunished with similar infringements.

"It's difficult to fight like this," he stated, "when you see Ferrari changing direction as many times as they wanted before the first corner in Turkey and nothing happens, and then we get penalised like this."

Symonds also stated that Alonso could well have won from fifth place tomorrow, but the penalty has vastly diminished their chances of victory, at such a crucial stage of the championship.

"We had a genuine winning strategy staring from fifth, and it will be a lot harder from 10th," Symonds said.

"Not only because it is so hard to overtake, but because we are in the middle of the pack and a lot happens there on the first lap."

If it was deliberate by the team or driver maybe a penaly could be considered but this was obviously not the case so the punishment is beyond the supposed crime.

"But it is possible to cry fix. If i go through every qualifying session this year and find out at every point where cars are less than 2 seconds apart, i can legitimatly ask why a penalty was not handed out to the car infront."

If the actions and the results of them fit the definition of blocking and a protest has been made, then absolutely.

"It is such a stupid decsion that commentators around the world didnt even think, nevermind bring up the point of Alonso being in the way."

Well he could and i repeat could have been the reason for Massa losing time.

"If you want a perfectly clear track, have single lap qualifying again. But with more than 1 car on the track at a time you WILL get situations like this, and to a certain extent, the drivers should just deal with it."

Exactly.

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What's any of this got to do (directly) with Schumacher or Ferrari? It's the FIA and stewards that gave Alonso the penalty. It gives Schumi a big advantage but knowone's blaming or accusing schumacher or Ferrari of anything. It's not their fault the FIA and Italians love them.

And come-on he got away lightly in Monaco. But lets not start that again.

paul..

If the actions and the results of them fit the definition of blocking and a protest has been made, then absolutely.

Ah! But what Alonso did does not fit the definition of blocking by the FIA Sporting Regulations.

What's any of this got to do (directly) with Schumacher or Ferrari?

Ignoring the Schumacher part, it has nothing to do with him, Massa and Ferrari lodged and official complaint, so thats why it does have something to do with Ferrari.

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Hmm this isnt helping shumachers eventual departure.

But then its not his fault.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

I am no Alonso fan but i think that this isn't fair. Look how big the gap is between the 2.

the damage to the flip-ups:

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

funny

i dont see where alonso blocked him at all massa was never that close yes he was in the dirty air but thats just racing and quali

chet Wrote:
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> Hmm this isnt helping shumachers eventual departure.
>
> But then its not his fault.

I very much doubt it was Massa who was the one to come up with the idea of complaining. I bet he didn't even know it was Alonso ahead he was so far behind. Reason Ferrari would care? To give Schumchare an advantage.

marcl
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>i dont see where alonso blocked him at all massa was never that close yes he was in the >dirty air but thats just racing and quali

I doubt he was in the dirty air. Dirty air shouldn't be as bad at Monza with the smaller wings and less aerodynamic devices, not as much distrubance in the air flow.



Was Massa at any point close enough to warrant Alonso yielding? No. Under race conditions he'd have probably got a stationery blue flag to warn him of a faster car approaching.

Keiran


vMax.Keiran
Velocity Maximum Simulation Racing
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Its a fix to make the championship closer.
This benefits Ferrari in this instance. I believe that if the roles where reversed the same would happen
How many years now has the FIA played with the championship? 1994. 1997. 2003? any other years?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2006 01:34AM by Mini Maestro.

heres another question,in qualy 1 the red flag went out for yamamotos tyre problem with debris on track.

so why no red flag in qualy 3 when alonso had almost the same problem with bits falling off the car on to the track.

i see that as if it was red flagged it would have gave renault more time to check the car and have a better time.