F1 Manager - 2005 Season - End of the Season!
Posted by Twigster151
Hey Twigster, just wanted to send you the perf updates, but your inbox is full. Mind tidying up a bit? 
Pluis schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They loaned there drivers I didn't. It's about who
> owns atm Heikki and it would be strange if
> mogotron could use Heikki without paying the 10
> million minus 2 million to my team, cause that
> would mean I would loose 8 million.
>
> I would rather break that contract and pay the 2
> million back to the Sauber F1 team then give
> Heikki up and loose 8 million.
Okay, I checked that and you are right (at least in some cases). Pycku already told me that this whole thing needs to be overthought again and I think I might just have found a solution which combines loan drivers and sister teams: Sister team contracts can be signed whenever wanted and can last as many seasons/races as both teams agree. If a team of whichever series wants to use a driver from their sister team, both sides need to agree on a price (loan) and the amount of races the driver shall switch. As soon as they have found an agreement the series manager (me and Twigster) have to be contacted, so we both can adjust the drivers and budgets. Both sides can at any time cancel the agreement again and if that happens a part of the money paid will get paid back to the paying team.
This in the end also means you can only loan out drivers from a sister team. Multiple contracts should definitely not be allowed.
If we would use this rule, it could only come into full action from next season onwards as e. g. DSR Lotus is having a sister team contract with Ferrari but loaning out a driver from Renault.
I would like to ask everyone who loaned out a driver, is having a loan driver or signed a sister team contract what they think of this contract as soon as possible. Take in mind that it also needs Twigster to agree on this change of rule.
BTW I´m sorry pluis if I in any way attacked you, I didn´t realise that other team owners are paying for the loan drivers of their sister teams until you mentioned it. I hope you are not too angry with me. Cheers?
-------------------------------------------------------
> They loaned there drivers I didn't. It's about who
> owns atm Heikki and it would be strange if
> mogotron could use Heikki without paying the 10
> million minus 2 million to my team, cause that
> would mean I would loose 8 million.
>
> I would rather break that contract and pay the 2
> million back to the Sauber F1 team then give
> Heikki up and loose 8 million.
Okay, I checked that and you are right (at least in some cases). Pycku already told me that this whole thing needs to be overthought again and I think I might just have found a solution which combines loan drivers and sister teams: Sister team contracts can be signed whenever wanted and can last as many seasons/races as both teams agree. If a team of whichever series wants to use a driver from their sister team, both sides need to agree on a price (loan) and the amount of races the driver shall switch. As soon as they have found an agreement the series manager (me and Twigster) have to be contacted, so we both can adjust the drivers and budgets. Both sides can at any time cancel the agreement again and if that happens a part of the money paid will get paid back to the paying team.
This in the end also means you can only loan out drivers from a sister team. Multiple contracts should definitely not be allowed.
If we would use this rule, it could only come into full action from next season onwards as e. g. DSR Lotus is having a sister team contract with Ferrari but loaning out a driver from Renault.
I would like to ask everyone who loaned out a driver, is having a loan driver or signed a sister team contract what they think of this contract as soon as possible. Take in mind that it also needs Twigster to agree on this change of rule.
BTW I´m sorry pluis if I in any way attacked you, I didn´t realise that other team owners are paying for the loan drivers of their sister teams until you mentioned it. I hope you are not too angry with me. Cheers?
No hard feelings, but I had to defend my rights.
7.5 million is a lot of money on the line
7.5 million is a lot of money on the line
Pluis schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No hard feelings, but I had to defend my rights.
>
> 7.5 million is a lot of money on the line
I´m glad to hear that. I´m also glad you brought up this "fight" as I therewith found a big problem in the sister team idea. What do you think about the new idea? <- Same question goes to everyone else
Edit: Btw, I forgot to mention that the sister team contracts would be free if my above mentioned rule would come into play.
Edit2: @pluis: Just out of interest: Would you loan out Kovalainen for some races during the season?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2011 06:15PM by Reve-san.
-------------------------------------------------------
> No hard feelings, but I had to defend my rights.
>
> 7.5 million is a lot of money on the line
I´m glad to hear that. I´m also glad you brought up this "fight" as I therewith found a big problem in the sister team idea. What do you think about the new idea? <- Same question goes to everyone else
Edit: Btw, I forgot to mention that the sister team contracts would be free if my above mentioned rule would come into play.
Edit2: @pluis: Just out of interest: Would you loan out Kovalainen for some races during the season?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2011 06:15PM by Reve-san.
Reve-san Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay, I checked that and you are right (at least
> in some cases). Pycku already told me that this
> whole thing needs to be overthought again and I
> think I might just have found a solution which
> combines loan drivers and sister teams: Sister
> team contracts can be signed whenever wanted and
> can last as many seasons/races as both teams
> agree. If a team of whichever series wants to use
> a driver from their sister team, both sides need
> to agree on a price (loan) and the amount of races
> the driver shall switch. As soon as they have
> found an agreement the series manager (me and
> Twigster) have to be contacted, so we both can
> adjust the drivers and budgets. Both sides can at
> any time cancel the agreement again and if that
> happens a part of the money paid will get paid
> back to the paying team.
>
> This in the end also means you can only loan out
> drivers from a sister team. Multiple contracts
> should definitely not be allowed.
>
> If we would use this rule, it could only come into
> full action from next season onwards as e. g. DSR
> Lotus is having a sister team contract with
> Ferrari but loaning out a driver from Renault.
>
> I would like to ask everyone who loaned out a
> driver, is having a loan driver or signed a sister
> team contract what they think of this contract as
> soon as possible. Take in mind that it also needs
> Twigster to agree on this change of rule.
>
> BTW I´m sorry pluis if I in any way attacked you,
> I didn´t realise that other team owners are
> paying for the loan drivers of their sister teams
> until you mentioned it. I hope you are not too
> angry with me. Cheers?
Sorry Reve-san but the rule change you are suggesting - I believe it won't happen in practise. If I'm a F1 team owner I won't sign a sister contract just in case and then negotiate once again with the GP2 team owner for the price if i like one of his drivers. I'll prefer to negotiate just once - when I decide which driver I'm interested in and while negotiating the price - one of the clauses will be that of a sister team - and that is just because I have to sign such a sister contract to hire the driver I like.
In the light of that I think to suspend my sister contract with Ferrari until the end of the season as the price of the contract is 0 and I cannot gain anything from it this season. . It comes that I'm not paid and I could lose any of my drivers.To be honest I had some clauses in my contract, but I'm not sure if Ferrari2007 or MDBSnake sent to you, so I don't know if they are valid.
And what happens If for example Ferrari wish to take Marc Gene from me - he is Renault driver after all and I took him from ART Williams?!
Also I know I'll hate myself for saying it, but I don't find it reasonable for F1 teams to be limited to loan/buy drivers only from their sister GP2 team. It is logical for GP2 teams to do so, but F1 teams should not be restricted.
On the contrary I suggest these rules:
1) F1 teams can loan or buy GP2 drivers at any time (including during the season) but this can happen only with mutual agreement between both parties (so this includes payment I believe). If F1 teams are linked somehow with the engines they produce (Ferrari, Renault and BMW for next year) - maybe there will be option not to pay but to supply the team free of charge or at a lower price.
2) GP2 teams can loan F1 drivers at any time (including during the season) but only from the team they are linked with a sister contract. I think in that case the restriction about age and races of F1 drivers should have not be applied. Of course loaning will happen at a price if that is negotiated in the sister contract.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay, I checked that and you are right (at least
> in some cases). Pycku already told me that this
> whole thing needs to be overthought again and I
> think I might just have found a solution which
> combines loan drivers and sister teams: Sister
> team contracts can be signed whenever wanted and
> can last as many seasons/races as both teams
> agree. If a team of whichever series wants to use
> a driver from their sister team, both sides need
> to agree on a price (loan) and the amount of races
> the driver shall switch. As soon as they have
> found an agreement the series manager (me and
> Twigster) have to be contacted, so we both can
> adjust the drivers and budgets. Both sides can at
> any time cancel the agreement again and if that
> happens a part of the money paid will get paid
> back to the paying team.
>
> This in the end also means you can only loan out
> drivers from a sister team. Multiple contracts
> should definitely not be allowed.
>
> If we would use this rule, it could only come into
> full action from next season onwards as e. g. DSR
> Lotus is having a sister team contract with
> Ferrari but loaning out a driver from Renault.
>
> I would like to ask everyone who loaned out a
> driver, is having a loan driver or signed a sister
> team contract what they think of this contract as
> soon as possible. Take in mind that it also needs
> Twigster to agree on this change of rule.
>
> BTW I´m sorry pluis if I in any way attacked you,
> I didn´t realise that other team owners are
> paying for the loan drivers of their sister teams
> until you mentioned it. I hope you are not too
> angry with me. Cheers?
Sorry Reve-san but the rule change you are suggesting - I believe it won't happen in practise. If I'm a F1 team owner I won't sign a sister contract just in case and then negotiate once again with the GP2 team owner for the price if i like one of his drivers. I'll prefer to negotiate just once - when I decide which driver I'm interested in and while negotiating the price - one of the clauses will be that of a sister team - and that is just because I have to sign such a sister contract to hire the driver I like.
In the light of that I think to suspend my sister contract with Ferrari until the end of the season as the price of the contract is 0 and I cannot gain anything from it this season. . It comes that I'm not paid and I could lose any of my drivers.To be honest I had some clauses in my contract, but I'm not sure if Ferrari2007 or MDBSnake sent to you, so I don't know if they are valid.
And what happens If for example Ferrari wish to take Marc Gene from me - he is Renault driver after all and I took him from ART Williams?!
Also I know I'll hate myself for saying it, but I don't find it reasonable for F1 teams to be limited to loan/buy drivers only from their sister GP2 team. It is logical for GP2 teams to do so, but F1 teams should not be restricted.
On the contrary I suggest these rules:
1) F1 teams can loan or buy GP2 drivers at any time (including during the season) but this can happen only with mutual agreement between both parties (so this includes payment I believe). If F1 teams are linked somehow with the engines they produce (Ferrari, Renault and BMW for next year) - maybe there will be option not to pay but to supply the team free of charge or at a lower price.
2) GP2 teams can loan F1 drivers at any time (including during the season) but only from the team they are linked with a sister contract. I think in that case the restriction about age and races of F1 drivers should have not be applied. Of course loaning will happen at a price if that is negotiated in the sister contract.
Reve-san Schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pluis schrieb:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No hard feelings, but I had to defend my
> rights.
> >
> > 7.5 million is a lot of money on the line
>
> I´m glad to hear that. I´m also glad you brought
> up this "fight" as I therewith found a big problem
> in the sister team idea. What do you think about
> the new idea? <- Same question goes to everyone
> else
>
> Edit: Btw, I forgot to mention that the sister
> team contracts would be free if my above mentioned
> rule would come into play.
>
> Edit2: @pluis: Just out of interest: Would you
> loan out Kovalainen for some races during the
> season?
I think the new rules would be better, contract wise everything will be much more clearer between the sisterteams.
Mogotron can use Heikki or Doornbos when the GP2 season has ended, that would not be a problem.
Rather not during the season, cause Heikki has a change for the GP2 title.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pluis schrieb:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No hard feelings, but I had to defend my
> rights.
> >
> > 7.5 million is a lot of money on the line
>
> I´m glad to hear that. I´m also glad you brought
> up this "fight" as I therewith found a big problem
> in the sister team idea. What do you think about
> the new idea? <- Same question goes to everyone
> else
>
> Edit: Btw, I forgot to mention that the sister
> team contracts would be free if my above mentioned
> rule would come into play.
>
> Edit2: @pluis: Just out of interest: Would you
> loan out Kovalainen for some races during the
> season?
I think the new rules would be better, contract wise everything will be much more clearer between the sisterteams.
Mogotron can use Heikki or Doornbos when the GP2 season has ended, that would not be a problem.
Rather not during the season, cause Heikki has a change for the GP2 title.
I've made some space in my inbox now Reve so you can send the perf updates
As for the Kovalainen/Sister teams issue just give me a bit to get my head around the wall of text
and yes Jake you're right as well, so that'll be changed once the budgets/contracts are finalised.
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As for the Kovalainen/Sister teams issue just give me a bit to get my head around the wall of text
and yes Jake you're right as well, so that'll be changed once the budgets/contracts are finalised.Interested in managing an F1 team? Sign up for the Grandprixgames F1 Manager game here
mogotron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why cant heikki or any driver participate in both,
> gp2 and F1 races as well? I am not taking Heikki
> away from Plius as it will deatroy his season, i
> will wait until the end of the gp2 season to ty
> and use heikki, my point is that we (f1 teams)
> should be able to bring in any free agent driver
> if one of our drivers is not performing. We should
> have the right as team managers, like Renault that
> droped piquet jr for grosjean couple of year ago,
> i mean is 2005 in tge season so i should be Able
> to offer a contract to any driver in the world
> from back of 2005 right?
Well technically Grosjean wasn't a free agent, he was the test/reserve driver at Renault that season and hence why he was chosen to replace Piquet. But anyway the main problem doesn't lie with the fact that managers are unable to bring in new drivers to their teams during a season as this has never been a problem in the past (and even if you were allowed to it would be a very brave decision to drop who on paper is the 6th best driver in the field for someone who is the 37th). The main problem here is with the way we have set up the Sister Team rule.
Tbh for this season I am happy to allow Kovalainen, or whoever else you may wish to choose, to drive in both GP2 and F1 if only just to keep the two series moving whilst we re-discuss the Sister Team ruling fully, as it's not going to harm anyone and it will only detract from the 'realism'. But then again it depends on what everyone else would like.
Interested in managing an F1 team? Sign up for the Grandprixgames F1 Manager game here
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why cant heikki or any driver participate in both,
> gp2 and F1 races as well? I am not taking Heikki
> away from Plius as it will deatroy his season, i
> will wait until the end of the gp2 season to ty
> and use heikki, my point is that we (f1 teams)
> should be able to bring in any free agent driver
> if one of our drivers is not performing. We should
> have the right as team managers, like Renault that
> droped piquet jr for grosjean couple of year ago,
> i mean is 2005 in tge season so i should be Able
> to offer a contract to any driver in the world
> from back of 2005 right?
Well technically Grosjean wasn't a free agent, he was the test/reserve driver at Renault that season and hence why he was chosen to replace Piquet. But anyway the main problem doesn't lie with the fact that managers are unable to bring in new drivers to their teams during a season as this has never been a problem in the past (and even if you were allowed to it would be a very brave decision to drop who on paper is the 6th best driver in the field for someone who is the 37th). The main problem here is with the way we have set up the Sister Team rule.
Tbh for this season I am happy to allow Kovalainen, or whoever else you may wish to choose, to drive in both GP2 and F1 if only just to keep the two series moving whilst we re-discuss the Sister Team ruling fully, as it's not going to harm anyone and it will only detract from the 'realism'. But then again it depends on what everyone else would like.
Interested in managing an F1 team? Sign up for the Grandprixgames F1 Manager game here
Verstappen Tops Jerez Test Session
Jos Verstappen was the quickest driver at the first of mid-season test sessions at the Jerez Circuit, the Ferrari test driver put in a superb time of 1:23.313 to put himself just over a tenth quicker than Rubens Barrichello in what looks to be a vastly improved Renault. Finally Gianmaria Bruni was third in his Jordan. Further down the field Sato gave BAR some hoping after ending the session up in 9th place whilst McLaren had a very difficult session after finishing down in 15th and 19th respectively.
Interested in managing an F1 team? Sign up for the Grandprixgames F1 Manager game here
Jos Verstappen was the quickest driver at the first of mid-season test sessions at the Jerez Circuit, the Ferrari test driver put in a superb time of 1:23.313 to put himself just over a tenth quicker than Rubens Barrichello in what looks to be a vastly improved Renault. Finally Gianmaria Bruni was third in his Jordan. Further down the field Sato gave BAR some hoping after ending the session up in 9th place whilst McLaren had a very difficult session after finishing down in 15th and 19th respectively.
Interested in managing an F1 team? Sign up for the Grandprixgames F1 Manager game here
Okay this is what Reve and I have discussed concerning the sister teams ruling, admittedly it was him who has re-written the rule as I've been too busy to much work on the series lately, so all credit goes to Reve And of course as always feel free to share your opinions and provide feedback.
Also note that any rule changes will only come into effect next season. For now as I have already stated I am happy to allow drivers to race in both F1 and GP2 at the same time, as long as they meet the requirements for GP2, in order to avoid the issue with the current rules.
As well as this I've run both free practice and quali for the Spanish GP so expect them soon and all the teams that were offered takeover deals accepted them. I'll do an official announcement and post what should be the final team budgets either just before or after the Spanish GP and hopefully get the driver contract negotiations underway as well
Interested in managing an F1 team? Sign up for the Grandprixgames F1 Manager game here
And of course as always feel free to share your opinions and provide feedback.Quote
Reve-san
Loan Drivers
F1 teams can loan drivers who they have already signed for the next season to instead race or test for one of the GP2 teams next season. This can be extremely beneficial as it allows managers to build up the perf of a younger driver, who may not be ready for F1 just yet, without wasting one of their seats in the main team. The exact details and clauses of the loan deals are to be discussed between the F1 and GP2 manager and there are no limitations as to what they can be, but you will have to send a copy of all the clauses included in the deal to Twigster and Reve-san so we can keep track of things to ensure that there is no wrong doing. Money received from loan deals can be spent at anytime during the season on either contract negotiations or testing, but any left over at the end of the season will be added to your testing budget.
Note, that the following drivers are not allowed to join GP2 Series:
-> Drivers, who have driven a whole season (18 races) in Formula 1
-> Drivers, who are over the age of 30
-> Drivers, who have won the GP2 Championship
Additionally GP2 managers are also able to loan out their drivers to a F1 team at the end of the GP2 season. While the drivers benefit from their Formula 1 experience, they will still be able to drive in GP2 next season except they reach the 18 F1 races mark. The money received will be added to the current budget immediately and can be used for negotiations or be saved for next years test sessions.
Sister Team Contracts
In addition to loan drivers, F1 and GP2 teams are now allowed to be linked up to sister teams. These contracts can be signed anywhen throughout the whole season and can last as many races / seasons as the two teams agree on. If you sign such a contract, the two teams will be seen as one team when it comes to negotiations. This is good, if you remember this rule:
„... The driver will accept the highest offer unless his current team are within £500k of the highest bid for the driver in which case the driver will stay with his current team.“
Additionally F1 teams could say that they are only loaning out their drivers to their sister team and vice versa, but that´s completely up to them. It is also possible to rename the GP2 team to show the relationship between the two teams.
Also note that any rule changes will only come into effect next season. For now as I have already stated I am happy to allow drivers to race in both F1 and GP2 at the same time, as long as they meet the requirements for GP2, in order to avoid the issue with the current rules.
As well as this I've run both free practice and quali for the Spanish GP so expect them soon and all the teams that were offered takeover deals accepted them. I'll do an official announcement and post what should be the final team budgets either just before or after the Spanish GP and hopefully get the driver contract negotiations underway as well
Interested in managing an F1 team? Sign up for the Grandprixgames F1 Manager game here
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