Incident 2k9 Wrote:
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> Massa started 2009 well, but by no means better
> than Button, Barrichello and Vettel. If you
> remember, at Melbourne that year Barrichello
> ballsed up the start, and still carved his way
> though to second. I'd even put Trulli up there, as
> he got two 3rd places in the first four races (and
> the Toyota wasn't particularly quick either,
> especiallty in Monaco). So I'd definitely think
> these guys started '09 better than Massa. Rosberg
> deserves a mention as well.
Of course Button was #1.
Vettel made crucial mistakes at Melbourne, Turkey and Monaco, as well as an average race at Barcelona, so I wouldn't conclusively put him above Massa for early 2009. Barrichello was solid, but I would say he'd need to have won a race to be considered for 2nd. He also had a scrappy race at Turkey, and a poor start at Melbourne as you say.
Trulli and Rosberg would be other potential candidates, I agree.
EC83 Wrote:
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> How can it be an excuse when it's genuinely what
> happened? The facts about Kimi's best drives speak
> for themselves. It never ceases to surprise me
> that people argue that he's not exceptional.
Well you can't empirically prove a loss of motivation though. I never argued he wasn't exceptional, just that it is too simplistic to solely blame motivation for Massa beating Kimi in 2008 and 2009.
EC83 Wrote:
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> Regarding Massa, I'm not sure how anyone can argue
> he was the 2nd best driver in early 2009. As well
> as Kimi, there was Alonso, Vettel, Rubens and
> Lewis driving, all of who are an echelon above
> Massa. Sorry.
Just because they were "driving" doesn't mean they were better in early 2009. Lewis made a few mistakes, had a poor attitude and was even beaten by Kovalainen more regularly, and Vettel made plenty of mistakes as I mentioned above. You could almost say Kimi was equal with Massa, but I don't think you could put him ahead considering Massa scored 22 points to 10.
Alonso was also good in a poor car, and another candidate for Top 5 in that period.
X (@ed24f1)