Renault(Sorry, Lotus) drivers for 2012

Thanks to all for the helmet pics guys! It's a bit plainer than I was expecting, but I do like it. No surprises in seeing the rune included, but I am surprised at the amount of white & red.

Also interesing (for me at least) to see he's returned to Arai, although I know he was contractually obliged to use Schuberth at Ferrari.

The other thing that I wondered was whether the Red Bull sponsorship that he's enjoyed for the past few years would continue, but I guess it's finished now.

I gotta say...I'm excited to see this dude racing again. If Renault can produce a half decent car this year, he might just snag a victory in Spa again :D

It's a really exciting prospect, he could be rusty and struggle a bit to begin with, but you get the feeling with Kimi's talent that he could do mindblowing things, even if the car turns out to be crap. I've always believed that he's the most talented driver of his generation and was the most naturally gifted driver in F1 during his career, and I still believe he is now.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2012 11:05PM by EC83.

EC83 Wrote:
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> It's a really exciting prospect, he could be rusty
> and struggle a bit to begin with, but you get the
> feeling with Kimi's talent that he could do
> mindblowing things, even if the car turns out to
> be crap. I've always believed that he's the most
> talented driver of his generation and was the most
> naturally gifted driver in F1 during his career,
> and I still believe he is now.

IMO Kimi could make Lewis, Alonso and Vettel look like they're standing still.

Maybe I am biased, but I think it is very fair to say he is better than Lewis, and Vettel and at least the equal of Alonso.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

Nah, I don't think it's being biased to say that. Pound for pound Kimi is the most naturally talented guy to drive in F1 since Ayrton Senna, and on a good day - when he's really hooked up and in the sweet spot - he's truly Senna-esque. Barcelona 2005 and Suzuka 2005 are two examples.
The thing that separates the two(or has done so far) is that Kimi's drive and determination to utilise that talent has been extremely poor(virtually non-existent even) compared with Senna's. That's how lesser drivers have ended up beating him.

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I'm guessing most people here are going for Grosjean over Kimi in 2012 based on the last few pages!

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X (@ed24f1)

Kimi for me is one of the most talented guys to ever race in F1. I just hope he gets back to the form before his last year in Mclaren and before he joined Ferrari.

If we get the real Kimi back he will be a treat to watch.

EC83 Wrote:
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> Nah, I don't think it's being biased to say that.
> Pound for pound Kimi is the most naturally
> talented guy to drive in F1 since Ayrton Senna,
> and on a good day - when he's really hooked up and
> in the sweet spot - he's truly Senna-esque.
> Barcelona 2005 and Suzuka 2005 are two examples.
> The thing that separates the two(or has done so
> far) is that Kimi's drive and determination to
> utilise that talent has been extremely
> poor(virtually non-existent even) compared with
> Senna's. That's how lesser drivers have ended up
> beating him.

Right on the money. I could not agree more.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.

i dont want to argue with you guys, but i really find it interesting to ask.. what are your conclusions based on ? "kimi is one of the most gifted drivers " ?! lets look at some facts...

1) he was never a lot faster than massa

2) he could only win two races with macca for 4 years (2002,2003,2004,2006)

3) his teammates were: coulthard, massa and montoya... each of them had been beaten from their team mates on a regular basis (coulthard from hakkinen, massa from old schuey and heidfeld, montoya was equal with ralf but.. never something spectacular for more than 2-3 races per season)

dont get me wrong, kimi is a very very good driver in my view. he just isnt as talented, i think, as you point out.

P.S. i would really enjoy it, ifhe shows someting extraordinary and manages to mix it up with the big teams.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2012 03:53PM by mitadumapaga.

Them stats are not very good tbh.

2002 was never a winning car, 2003 he should have won more but the car let him down plus it was not the best car yet he kept himself in the championship hunt. 2004 very bad car.

2005 should have won more and the championship had the car finished races and practise session. Many a time Kimi started with a 10 place drop due to an engine change.

2006 bad car again.

But 2006 anyway kimi could not be bothered so I just look at seasons before that. Mika just about beat DC on many occation, Kimi destroyed DC. I do not think JPM was ahead of Kimi much either?

With Nick Kimi was in his 1st year, but he would have out scored Nick has his car not had problems.

Kimi when hes on it is fantastic, fastest driver out there and very few mistakes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2012 04:22PM by marcl.

In some ways Kimi is a bit like Carlos Reutemann. Simply sublime on his day but easily bored when things aren't going his way.

J i m schrieb:
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> In some ways Kimi is a bit like Carlos Reutemann.
> Simply sublime on his day but easily bored when
> things aren't going his way.


couldnt agree more.

AT Marcl :

man, what you wrote kindda makes me think, whether kimi isnt a car breaker ?!?! I remeber in the 90's mansell was occused of being a car breaker and james hunt than defended him in his commentary during one race. Same with kimi, his car faultered so many times, 2005, 2004, 2001 etc.. I dont wanna blame the guy, its just that i cant help a feeeling he is just a regular car breaker, even in top teams, such as ferrari in 2007 and 2008.

I think regarding the question of Kimi's talent, F1 drivers tend to get labelled a certain way and then it tends to stick even if it's contradictory. Nick Heidfeld has always been saddled with the rep of an unspectacular driver, consistent but not star quality, and yet people act like Kubica is an utter superstar and alongside Alonso/Vettel/Hamilton. This is despite him winning only one race, which was frankly Heidfeld's until team orders stepped in, and performing very arguably no better than Heidfeld over the period they were teammates (Nick ahead on points 140 to 137, 8 podiums each). Likewise, Heidfeld has produced some epic overtakes in his career and showed he had the speed when he took back to back 2nd places in 2004 along with a pole position. But no sorry, I guess people think he's a boring guy or something so he can't be a star. Kubica's only other teammate has been Petrov who hasn't exactly set the world alight. But despite these indisputable facts, Kubica is the star and Heidfeld is just well...Nick. Am I missing something? Maybe Kubica and Heidfeld are just good drivers or maybe they're both great but the commonly held opinions of them don't really make much sense when you compare them. The difference in their perceived skill levels are quite big, too big to really be supported by these facts, surely? Unless people speak about Kubica as having the "potential" to be a great that was not yet realised, but it doesn't seem like that...

You can apply this to just about any other perception that people have with F1 drivers. So when it comes to Kimi, everyone seems to think he is insanely talented but he doesn't give a @#$%&. As far as I'm concerned, the only thing which he's proven he doesn't give a @#$%& about is Pele's presentation in Brazil 2006 and he doesn't particularly care if eating ice cream during a red flag plays up to this public image. But I think because Kimi just has that kind of bored, monotone appearance in the media that people think that it's therefore applicable to his driving despite it being generally known that he's there to race motor cars, not to chat to the media, and so when he's not out on the track, what's there for him to be interested about? People use this idea of Kimi's motivation to explain why, when he doesn't perform at the level of this oh-so gifted driver they envision should, they can just say Kimi wasn't trying. I'm not saying that this isnt a possibility, but there are many others. Maybe he never got comfortable in the 2008 car. Maybe Massa is an amazing driver (despite a lot to the contrary) but only when the car perfectly suits him. Maybe Kimi just didn't drive at his best for other reasons, such as problems within the team and not feeling comfortable. Or maybe he simply isn't "the most gift driver since" whoever but he's good enough to have made the most of his equipment and produced some excellent races now and then, like many other drivers. Personally I think you have to say the guy is really talented, coming into F1 the way he did from FRenault after 23 car races or whatever. That's pretty insane.

But what mitadumapaga brings up is also true, he hasn't really had any teammates that we have been able to effectively rate other than Coulthard (Montoya seems like a bit of an answered question, Massa clearly isn't an elite driver but Kimi hasn't performed as well against him as you'd suppose).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2012 05:48PM by elemental.

A crazy amount of reliability woes with McLaren robbing him of almost certain wins would have made him an arguable multiple world champion already.

Kimi does have the stats behind him without those issues to be deemed 'super'.

I think if he hadn't been so unlucky in some of the McLaren days people would now be comparing a 2 or even 3 time world champ Kimi versus a 7 time Schumacher / 1 time Alonso.

When you strip back what he so easily could have got, and it takes a bit of height from other winners if Kimi took it you see that he deserves the label of 'mega talented' - but very unlucky.

But he didn't win, and that is that!


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2012 06:33PM by danm.

You say it's luck, but as we all know of Newey, part of what make his cars so quick is the lack of compromise elsewhere (namely cooling).

I'm probably biased, but Kimi for me was always the most talented one from the new generation of drivers. Not the most cerebral, or the most inspired perhaps, but the most talented. He had performances in his career that are jaw dropping. I think he was very unlucky in 2003-2006 with McLaren. They either produced a very bad car, or produced a fast one that didn't work for more than 10 laps. 2005 should've been his year, but he had so many engine breakdowns that he was constantly playing catchup.

With Ferrari, the issue was another. Although he always said the environment was a lot better than McLaren, which is very corporate, Ferrari on the other hand is very political. And after Ferrari brushed Schumacher aside in favour of Massa and Raikkonen, and after Raikkonen won the 2007 championship, it seemed like they needed to prove that Massa was a good bet and put all the effort behind him. 2008 was a very odd year. If you look at the points progression that year, even with Raikkonen having a bad year, he was still only a few points behind Massa and Hamilton towards the end of the year. Had he won that race in Spa, he probably could've challenged for the championship.

In any event, the only other driver from the current generation that produced races comparable to Kimi, IMO, was Alonso. Even Vettel hasn't really caught my attention. He can win in bunches, sure, but only if the car is perfect and if he starts up front. I haven't seen a Suzuka 2005 for him like Kimi and Alonso (Whom, btw also had a superb race. He didn't win, but finishing 3rd was still one hell of an effort).

so the general conlusion is..

Kimi is either overrrated, or the most naturally talented driver to sit on a GP car

i would like to see how he does this time around, because tbh he had a good reputation but the 2005 Macca car sky rocketed it.. of course he had the talent to drive it and do amazing stuff with it.. however very often you hear "he's good bu he's not putting effort, or he's good but his car is not suiting his style, he's good but he's had bad luck". a lot of "excuses" to justify his lack of success, and to me that tend to incline the balance to the "he's overrated" side.

not saying he's am average joe at all, he's very talented, but other than 2005 he hasn't done much to justify his "super driver" reputation



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2012 08:49PM by Slash.

Quote
elemental
I think regarding the question of Kimi's talent, F1 drivers tend to get labelled a certain way and then it tends to stick even if it's contradictory. Nick Heidfeld has always been saddled with the rep of an unspectacular driver, consistent but not star quality, and yet people act like Kubica is an utter superstar and alongside Alonso/Vettel/Hamilton. This is despite him winning only one race, which was frankly Heidfeld's until team orders stepped in, and performing very arguably no better than Heidfeld over the period they were teammates (Nick ahead on points 140 to 137, 8 podiums each). Likewise, Heidfeld has produced some epic overtakes in his career and showed he had the speed when he took back to back 2nd places in 2004 along with a pole position. But no sorry, I guess people think he's a boring guy or something so he can't be a star. Kubica's only other teammate has been Petrov who hasn't exactly set the world alight. But despite these indisputable facts, Kubica is the star and Heidfeld is just well...Nick. Am I missing something? Maybe Kubica and Heidfeld are just good drivers or maybe they're both great but the commonly held opinions of them don't really make much sense when you compare them. The difference in their perceived skill levels are quite big, too big to really be supported by these facts, surely? Unless people speak about Kubica as having the "potential" to be a great that was not yet realised, but it doesn't seem like that...

Couldn't agree more. If he'd got that McLaren seat in '02...

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GPGSL: S6 - TafuroGP Tester (14th) /// S7 - ART Tester (6th) /// S8 - Demon Driver (13th) /// S9 - Demon/Snake Driver (13th) /// S10 - Snake Driver (???) ///]
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness" - Charles Bukowski

Slash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so the general conlusion is..
>
> Kimi is either overrrated, or the most naturally
> talented driver to sit on a GP car
>
> i would like to see how he does this time around,
> because tbh he had a good reputation but the 2005
> Macca car sky rocketed it.. of course he had the
> talent to drive it and do amazing stuff with it..
> however very often you hear "he's good bu he's not
> putting effort, or he's good but his car is not
> suiting his style, he's good but he's had bad
> luck". a lot of "excuses" to justify his lack of
> success, and to me that tend to incline the
> balance to the "he's overrated" side.
>
> not saying he's am average joe at all, he's very
> talented, but other than 2005 he hasn't done much
> to justify his "super driver" reputation


I'm sorry but I don't agree...Kimi's reputation is not only based on 2005, already 2003 with old car he fight against faster cars Ferrari and Williams and almost managed to win the title. Also the words most talented driver in formula 1 come from the experts,drivers,team principals not from the fans, last one to say something like that was Pedro De La Rosa (who has worked with the drivers like: Häkkinen,Hamilton,Alonso,Button,Kovalainen,Coulthard etc.) he said the following:

[www.autosport.com]

Quote

Q. What do you think of Raikkonen's return? Do you think he will be the same as before?

PdlR: Kimi is a great driver with whom I've worked with and for a lot. And I've always said that of all the drivers I've worked with, he's probably the most brilliant. If Lotus can build a competitive car, Kimi could surprise this year.

Also Ferrari's team principal Stefano Domenicalli said during the summer for his friend journalist Leo Turrini that the fastest driver he has ever seen driving a f1 car is Kimi Räikkönen.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2012 11:10AM by vesuvius.

Lotus chassis is now the E20, dropping the Rxx from previous years.

Last year's car was called the R31, in accordance with Renault's numbering tradition, but with the name-change to Lotus for 2012, the team has decided to honour the factory staff by naming the new car E20 - 'E' for Enstone.

The '20' is a reference to the fact the new single seater is the twentieth made at Enstone since the then Benetton team relocated in 1992. The E20 will be revealed on February 5, the day before Kimi Raikkonen debuts it at Jerez on the eve of the opening 2012 group test.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2012 12:36PM by madotter.