2010 European Grand Prix ***SPOILERS***

edit covfan - no i dont i treat all drivers fairly.

it just so happens that hamilton is in the news so much because he does go over the top so much simple

if he was less controversial then peope wouldnt talk about him in a bad way, simple.


If fernando had of done the same thing today i would have had a go at him too

Felipe too. When alonso jump started i was the first in my house to say he should get a penalty for that


so dont accuse me of just having this opinion because he is not in a ferrari!

edit about my senna post - i think its more about the mindset of whether it was on purpose or not and that is the difficult thing to police


for example did prost drive into senna at 89 suzuka or did senna make an impossible maneuvre , we will never know because prost would never admit to barging into senna and senna would never of admitted to doing a pointless overtake


other indicents such as trulli on kubica canada 2007 was just trulli not seeing robert and robert had nowhere to go, not malicious

but you could make turning into someone look like an accident such as prost in 89


strange sport but its the human side that makes it so intruiging

ipswich2007 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
When alonso jump started i was the
> first in my house to say he should get a penalty
> for that

to be fair even montezemolo must have been screaming alonso needs a penalty for that - it was blatant.

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not as blatant live as it is when you re-watch it


live it was an exterior shot in normal speed


replay was onboard slowmo shot

but ye

Quote
covfan
I see your point Gav, but it's all about luck really.

If it was just a sport, then the sporting side might come into a bit more, but this is big business, and these decisions can cost teams millions and can cost teams sponsors. Next time it might be a driver for a small team who's scraped into the points which might potentially lose them £5m+ in travel costs for the following season.

It's the same with goal-mouth technology in football (which is an equally valid discussion today). Billions are traded in these sports, so it's not just the sporting side.

And if it was sporting, then I don't see what's sporting about a driver dropping 15 places because he didn't have the opportunity to break the rules.

I'm not going to lambaste Hamilton - I don't think he broke the rules deliberately - but it spoiled a cracking race between he and Vettel, and between the Ferrari's, McLarens and Red Bull.

Nothing good came out of it. Nothing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2010 08:46PM by gav.

this was a potentially great race between vettel hamilton alonso massa kubica button and possibly webber if he didnt crash

in my eyes spoiled by a SC

but i suppose even if the SC didnt come out noone could have overtaken anyways so was probably always destined to be bad due to Mr Tilke


anyways looking forward to silverstone spa and monza


the proper f1 circuits ::P

agreed on that point...this is the worst race on the calendar for me. horrendous. no character. bland. proper street track its not.

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I do see your point Gav, I can see that of Alonso and Ferrari's as well.

But I do have tbh for years being a Mclaren fan I have seen a Ferrari driver win in the pit lane. Driver swap positions on the last corner etc. So for Ferrari to say this has made a joke out the sport, I really think they need to look at themselves. It is not the fault of Lewis or Mclaren that the FIA took so long to hand out the penalty, as I said the same happened at Sinapoure and that allowed Nico to finish 2nd.

For Alonso 4 times this year his race has been saved by a safety car, this time it was not. I feel bad for MS as well but maybe he will look back a few years to what happened at Canada with him an HHF and remember why the lights are now on until they have passed.

As I said before both Lewis and Vettel should have been way passed the safety car, the mistake lewis made was slowing down and speeding up again. Alonso would have never passed it anyway. Alonso should not have been kept behind the car either he should have been waved passed, it is after all meant to pick up the leader. And yes I also find it strange that lewis said that as he did look to slow down, and then speed up again.

I do not understand why it is just 5 sec penalties though, they should all be given a 20 sec drive through. But they are penalties handed out so we just have to move on. Glock got a 20 sec penalty for getting in the way when being lapped. What is worse holding someone up or speeding under yellows? For me its speeding.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2010 09:45PM by marcl.

Quote
marcl
I do not understand why it is just 5 sec penalties though, they should all be given a 20 sec drive through.

So far as I'm aware drivers aren't penalised during the race for a beating the delta time, and if they're only a second or 2 fast, then a 5 second penalty is fair enough. Presumably if someone beat it by 5 or 10 seconds, they'd be dealt with either during the race or with a more draconian penalty.

As for Chet earlier wondering why Button was given on for the lap the safety car came out... well I don't think he was. Button and the others penalised pitted the lap the safety car came out, so I don't think they could have beaten any delta time even if there was one (which there wouldn't have been). He'll have been penalised for breaking a sector time on his out lap.

But if they speed in the pit lane by even 2mph its a drive through, this is where it is not really clear.

I dont like all this delta time thing anyway its so hard for the drivers to know what speed to go, I mean MS was at full pace coming in for his stop.

yes i noticed that he was bombing it.

it strange to think how ferrari used to get biased calls in the past considering how anti ferrari max appears to be.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2010 10:02PM by rapid_f1.

does anybody know for sure where would have MS landed after his pit stop, if the red lights were off ???

Fernando Alonso should shut the hell up, why he just can't get over it. Luca Di Montezemolo should sacked him out of. I hate it when he does that!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2010 02:38AM by RebelWithoutaCause.

I do not get why alonso went on and on about it he should have got on with the race and try and pass the slower cars. Did he want Lewis dq from the race? He should watch a reply and see it's not as bad as he is making out, it's not even half a car length between Lewis and the safety car. Alonso should not have dropped so far behind Lewis the lap before he was 1.2 going onto the main straight it was more like 4. Anyone listening to Ferrari and alonso would think Lewis passed the car on the track. Ferrari should have bought alonso in the pits and massa on that lap so they did not get caught, vettel and Lewis where already past the pit entrance.

Lewis got a penalty it's not his fault it took that long to give.

And I am not saying its ok to pass the safety car, but as others have said there would be no way for Lewis to actually see if he has passed the car before the line or not due to the view out of an F1 car. Ferrari need to ask why Alonso and Massa were not waved past as they were not the leaders of the race.

I can see this not pitting during a safety car being bought in again, or at least until all the cars are in the queue.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2010 09:46AM by marcl.

Webber's Crash: [www.itv-f1.com]

Ferrari are so honest are they, well a number of teams are not happy that Ferrari tested the new parts on their car at a so called photo shoot over 70 laps were completed during this "photo shoot". Testing rules are set to be looked at again due to this.

David Coulthard was saying that the crash is an example of what might happen next year with the new regulations. What does everyone here think about that? (Unless I've already missed that discussion...?)

One thing I don't agree with is his remarks about Heikki being in the wrong for trying to defend his position. Coulthard should know from personal experience that there was nothing in the rule book that would have told Bernoldi that he had to let Coulthard by at Monaco, and Bernoldi milked the fact that Monaco was nigh-on impossible to pass at and raised his profile tremendously. Why the hell shouldn't a Lotus try and keep a Red Bull at bay? Had Webber been delayed a second or more, hell yeah the Virgins would be all over him. "Class B teams should only fight with Class B rivals"?
Sorry, has the FIA re-introduced the Jim Clark Trophy and I haven't noticed it???



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2010 11:34AM by zulu_85.

I do not know why DC and others are saying these things.

In the past some cars had turbos some did not, some cars had KERS some did not etc. What happened yesterday had nothing to do with any of these things, it was the fact that the Lotus has to brake so much earlier than the RBR car and that is what the problem was.

I still feel that Kovy moved twice and I also think Webber was to close when there was no need to. These accidents have happened before and thank god they do not happen to often.

It is not the 1st time this year Webber has got his breaking wrong when close to another car.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2010 12:07PM by marcl.

Lotus have to give their sponsors exposure too, and where better than when a front runner is fighting with one?

That said Heikki was moving across to give Webber the inside line, yet Webber followed him, so Heikki wasn't exactly going to put up much of a fight. It's the fact that Webber followed him which caused the problem.

Webber can only blame himself. It was his shocking first lap which put him back in 9th (or wherever he was), a result of his poor start why RBR had to try something different to get him into a respectable position, and as a result of that he had to overtake slower cars, and he failed at the first attempt. Spectacularly.

I'm normally a supporter of Webber and his ballsy style, but as a leader of the GPDA, he ought to be setting the example, not being the exception to it.

The bloke's a lucky boy, but he can only blame himself. It was utter stupidity.

I think it was Webbers fault. Man Mark its a Lotus thats not a car you have to fight that hard. You will overtake it sooner or later it was just a matter of time if he got him. Another thing is that Ferrari could have been a bit quicker at the pitwall and should have got both in 1 lap earlier but i didnt happen wich was bad for the race but i still think they are right the stewards could have gave hamilton the drive trough a bit earlier cause he gained so much time in those 13 laps before he got it. But its all over now and i am happy for Rubens for this good result.
Robert had a good race but had a bad pitstop cause they had vitalys tyres and not his. Ant at last kobayashi/Sauber did a good job aswell and had luck to. So overall the webber incident shaked things up a bit but it was still quite boring.

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"And thats the bottom line cause Alonso0506 said so"