2010 Formula 1™ Monaco GP THREAD **SPOILERS**

No one complained about Alonso's start though. He jumped the start and got penalised for it. What's to complain about?

As to Senna... his means of winning at all costs are rather different to Hamilton's. Senna put himself (and his competitors sometimes) at risk in order to win at any cost in a scary era. It was big balls. Hamilton more takes advantage of situations put in front of him, such as his move on Kimi at Spa in 2008... not so much big balls, more screaming like a girl in order to get his way.

Senna took big risks.

Hamilton takes silly risks. Melbourne 2010 as an example, when he touched Massa.

No one says that Hamilton is alone in making these mistakes and risks, it's just that Hamilton divides opinion like no-one else manages. No one questions he's a brilliant talent, but some of his moves are simply plain idiocy.

What annoys me most about some people's reaction is that they seem to see him as a kid, an inexperienced youngster who's still learning the ropes so must be allowed a little more slack than his rivals, but he's 25 and has been doing this for 17 years now. You've got guys out there who started in F1 in at 19 who act less petulant.

^Yeah I agree with what you are saying.

Some of the things he does are great, and some things are just stupid which even Lewis fans admit to.

He can go from having a great race in China to do something stupid like he done in Japan a few years back.

I still think he learnt a lot last year but he does seem to be the only driver not able to judge how close he gets to the car infront when making a move. He banged his front wing on Rubens in Brazil and done the same to Massa.

Time will tell with Lewis if he does mature or not, and I think that is what a lot of it is he does think he can get his own way hense all the penalties in 2008. Maybe jumping str8 into a winning car was not the best thing for him but it happened and I agree he has not done anything at all to make people like him. But for me I dont like him but I like what he does in the car, I am from the 80's eara though so am used to people taking risks. I still do not think he puts other drivers in any danger though.

does anybidy else think the 2 years at renault (2008/2009) made alonso better driver. i somehow feel that now he is absolutely comlete as a package. earlier he was driving fast...very fast. now he's just flying on the track .
so in this aspect i do think that being in a smaller team helps a driver mature, just like "marcl" mentioned.

I've said this all along about Hamilton lacking that essence of starting rock bottom that makes him incomplete.

Doing that gives yield to natural maturity.

Just look at how, say, Jenson's approach to situations are.


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it

^Yep which I thought he learnt last year, tbh he is driving well this year just not doing well in quali. Lewis just depends on the team to much.

I actually think there are a few drivers under pressure this weekend to score big.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2010 10:07PM by marcl.

Good point about Jenson. In his first few seasons in F1 he was pretty immature as a character off the track and often inconsistent on it, and of course took ages to win his first race. But the years of having to endure crappy cars did eventually have a great beneficial effect on him, and allied to his successful 2009 season, have produced a mature and largely well-rounded driver.
Lewis could do with more seasons like 2009 was for him, as a bad car brings maturity to a relatively inexperienced driver and gives the best drivers the chance to show their ability, all at once.

Regarding Alonso, he's always been a complete and immaculate performer IMO, even as long ago as 2005-2007. But a couple of seasons in a shitbox Renault since then could well have given him an extra polish.

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The biggest problem I think for Lewis is he has been expected to perform from the word go. Anything less than a top 6 would be a disaster in his debut.

With that pressure, and that expectation, and then having accomplished that more or less, is it any wonder he spits his dummy when it doesn't go that way?

For better or worse, the boy doesn't know how to handle losing. He's never had to really endure it. Every step of his has been gold plated, bar last season, which was an eye opener, and he did momentarily adjust and grow up a little.

But he needs more extreme measures than half a season in a half cut McLaren.

He needs something like what happened to Alonso - have the glory, only to be reminded of humble beginnings for a little time out for a few seasons in a crap car.

When you realise you aren't immortal and things can and will hold you back, you then have a point to prove.

When has Lewis had a point to prove? He'd already accomplished his goals before even beginning most of them!


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it

danm Wrote:
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> For better or worse, the boy doesn't know how to
> handle losing. He's never had to really endure it.
> Every step of his has been gold plated, bar last
> season, which was an eye opener, and he did
> momentarily adjust and grow up a little.


He didn't adjust last year well at all when the car was poor. In the first half of the season, he was hardly faster than Kovalainen, and seemed to have a bad attitude for most of it (although the fall-out from the lie-gate had something to do with this). Even when he had a half-chance, he made mistakes, such as at Monaco and Shanghai. Then at Nurburgring, he suggested they retire the car after his puncture - which I doubt Alonso would ever do regardless of the situation.

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X (@ed24f1)

for quali tomorrow i hope that Fernando and Robert will be on the front row and for vitaly to make it into q3.
At practice Ferrari and Renault looked good but McLaren and Mercedes will be up there to but i guess someone of the top contenders will not make it into q3 and mybe we see a surprise.

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"And thats the bottom line cause Alonso0506 said so"

Nice post alonso0506. Your most measured and realistic post I've ever seen on here.

But I do doubt any of the top teams falling out in q3.

SchueyFan Wrote:
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> He didn't adjust last year well at all when the
> car was poor. In the first half of the season, he
> was hardly faster than Kovalainen

Id disagree there, he had a shite attitude yeah but he was always miles in front of Heikki, at least when it came to Sunday.

Back to topic..

[www.autosport.com]

And rightly so.

It bugs me when the drivers complain about the slower cars like they do. The drivers in the top cars need give the slower cars respect before they start to simply expect it imo.

If a top car doesnt get through Q1, its the drivers/team fault. not traffic.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

Trulli can sort his own attitude out before he starts having a pre-emptive bash at the attitudes of others. All he's done in 2010 is complain. What was he expecting? Podiums? Heikki's shown him how he should be handling himself.

Personally I felt Hamilton was very, very average for the first half of 2009, Melbourne and Monaco excluded. When he got a sniff of a good result he looked spectacular and up for it. When he wasn't on the pace he was pretty poor by any standards and you could see it in his driving. I guess by later in the year he'd learned to deal with it a bit more and looked more consistent in his approach and performances.

gav Wrote:
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> Trulli can sort his own attitude out before he
> starts having a pre-emptive bash at the attitudes
> of others. All he's done in 2010 is complain. What
> was he expecting? Podiums? Heikki's shown him how
> he should be handling himself.
>

Since when has Trulli done any different :p? He's the biggest complainer on the grid

But yeah Heikki has looked alot more confortable in the car, and team but tbh Trulli to me has never really looked at home anywhere apart from Renault. Anyway, this weekend will be telling. Trulli has never, ever been out qualified by a team-mate at Monaco ! Alonso tried and filed twice, Button got an 8th, to Trulli's 7th... So if Heikki can then well done!

But on this subject I fully agree with him. Im tired of seeing the "top drivers" always stick their hand out the car, complain in interviews because of traffic etc. They have to understand however slow or fast, there are other cars on track. Button's and Alonso's antics at China really bugged me about it all. And if I were Chandock (in Alonso's case) and Di Grassi (For Button) I would have been ever so tempted to take a walk down to Alonso's and Buttons garage and have some words !

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

For me, there's nothing wrong with complaining of traffic. If there's traffic which gets in your way and slows you down, then it's indisputable (Alonso and Massa at Monza excepted).

Moaning about it is a little different, but I still can't see a problem. It's unfortunate, and maybe down to a lack of foresight from you or your team, but I don't have a problem with drivers moaning. They're bound to be disappointed if they're knocked out early due to any reason.

What do you expect them to say afterwards in the compulsory interviews? That they're ecstatic that they're out in Q1?

I think the moaning over six slower cars is really over the top. The situation today is not much different than it was in the 1990'ies. In 1993 we had 26 cars attempting to qualify. The slowest was 9 seconds off the pace. Between the cars that made it through qualifying, the gap was six seconds from fastest to slowest. The pole time was 1:20.557, a measly 6 seconds faster than the times posted in P2.

We have 2 cars less this time around, and in P2 only one car was off, by more than 6 seconds. 4 of the 6 cars that are under fire for being slow, are less than 4 seconds slower than Alonso's fastest lap. The picture has been very similar at the last few GP's.

Just 6 years ago the cars drove even faster around the streets of Monaco, and while there has always been complaints about Minardi, I don't remember anyone calling for the Jordans and Massa in his Sauber, to be put in a separate qualifying session. Neither do I remember team bosses and top drivers making live radio calls to Charlie Whiting, and statements in the press, about them being "really dangerous".

This season has been exceptionally bad on this issue, and was even before the cars did a single lap of testing. It is mass hysteria. I feel this uncontrollable urge to look for these crybabies lost pacifiers. Racing is about being faster than somebody else. As natural consequence, others will be slower. This has ALWAYS been particularly tricky at Monaco, and is part of the challenge.

They should deal with it like so many have done before them.

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It's only after we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2010 10:08PM by Morbid.

In the 90s you had two one hour sessions, where the slower cars deliberately set their qualifying laps when the track was free from the stronger contenders in order to increase exposure for their sponsors, or the ego of the team owner. In the very early 90s in particular some of the slower cars were so poor they barely managed a few laps anyway, though that was more the case for the pre-qualifying horror teams, unreliability was such that it scaled to affect everyone.

In the very early 90s in particular some of the slower cars were so poor they barely managed a few laps anyway, though that was more the case for the pre-qualifying horror teams, unreliability was such that it scaled to affect everyone.

Thats Team Life´s history

Q1 won't be an issue. The bottom six drivers will be from the three new teams, accidents/weird issues aside. I could understand some frustration with the drivers if Q1 made the grid but it doesn't as far as most are concerned.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2010 11:24PM by elemental.

Life were an extreme example even for an era like the early 90s, their car was so far off the pace that it might or might not have held its own in a field of F3 cars; even an F3000 car would've blown its doors off.

Regarding the traffic issue, I'm inclined to agree with Morbid. We've had more cars with slower backmarkers qualifying at Monaco before, and that in the days when we had the old-style Monaco with proper Ste Devote, a proper Swimming Pool/Rascasse section and no 300m run-off areas. It was a squeeze, yes, but we always managed.
It's part of the experience. If you persevere long enough and time your laps right, you'll get a clean run. Some of these drivers need to stop moaning and being pussies.


Just 6 years ago the cars drove even faster around the streets of Monaco, and while there has always been complaints about Minardi, I don't remember anyone calling for the Jordans and Massa in his Sauber, to be put in a separate qualifying session.

Remember though, that was the era of one-shot qualifying. But your point stands.

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