The official 2009 Belgian Grand Prix thread ***SPOILERS***
Posted by Team CLR
chet Wrote:
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> Jenson will go home, and should send RedBull a
> thankyou card!!!
he should send him one for each race since Hungary. Here are some of their mistakes and errors in the last few races;
Germany - Put Vettel in the path of Nakajima at the pits
Hungary - Put Webber in the path of Raikkonen at the pits
- Gave Webber the option tyre in the middle stint meaning he fell too far behind Kimi
Valencia - Supposed fuel problem with Vettel, causing extra stop, when it worked all along
- Not pitting Webber at the same time as Button when they were stuck behind Kovalainen lost him 2 positions
- Slow 2nd stop for Webber ensured he came out behind Kubica
Belgium - Put Webber in the path of Heidfeld at the pits (drive through)
These sort of mistakes are not good enough for a team in championship contention. Whether it costs them the championship, its too early to say, but with their car pace also fading a bit, it will be very hard now they didn't take advantage of these opportunities.
X (@ed24f1)
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> Jenson will go home, and should send RedBull a
> thankyou card!!!
he should send him one for each race since Hungary. Here are some of their mistakes and errors in the last few races;
Germany - Put Vettel in the path of Nakajima at the pits
Hungary - Put Webber in the path of Raikkonen at the pits
- Gave Webber the option tyre in the middle stint meaning he fell too far behind Kimi
Valencia - Supposed fuel problem with Vettel, causing extra stop, when it worked all along
- Not pitting Webber at the same time as Button when they were stuck behind Kovalainen lost him 2 positions
- Slow 2nd stop for Webber ensured he came out behind Kubica
Belgium - Put Webber in the path of Heidfeld at the pits (drive through)
These sort of mistakes are not good enough for a team in championship contention. Whether it costs them the championship, its too early to say, but with their car pace also fading a bit, it will be very hard now they didn't take advantage of these opportunities.
X (@ed24f1)
WOOHOO KIMI!!!
Great drive. Some glimpses of the old Kimi, and makes up nicely for last year!
Story of the race must be Force India! What a transformation. I knew they had a fundamentally decent car, but no idea it could be this good! Praise where it's due to Giancarlo too. On a track where the driver makes a real difference he pulled something spectacular out of the bag this weekend.
Great first lap action, and a good result for the Championship again, although none of Jenson's rivals seem too interested in winning it either. :P
Great drive. Some glimpses of the old Kimi, and makes up nicely for last year!
Story of the race must be Force India! What a transformation. I knew they had a fundamentally decent car, but no idea it could be this good! Praise where it's due to Giancarlo too. On a track where the driver makes a real difference he pulled something spectacular out of the bag this weekend.
Great first lap action, and a good result for the Championship again, although none of Jenson's rivals seem too interested in winning it either. :P
Briere Wrote:
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> DaveEllis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Never seen an engine smoking like that last for
> 3
> > laps.
> >
> > Engine wasn't smoking. It was leaking hot oil.
> > It's also not that unusual. Australia 1996, and
> > Australia 1995.
>
> Monaco 2002 imo
In Monaco 2002 DC's car began smoking in a worrying way, but the team actually fixed the problem from the pit wall, effectively by remote control.
JV's problem at Melbourne in 1996 involved the car just losing oil out the back rather than smoking it, but your point stands.
One similar case I can think of was Berger's Ferrari at Jerez in 1989, when the car started smoking at about 1/3 distance but still finished 2nd.
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> DaveEllis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Never seen an engine smoking like that last for
> 3
> > laps.
> >
> > Engine wasn't smoking. It was leaking hot oil.
> > It's also not that unusual. Australia 1996, and
> > Australia 1995.
>
> Monaco 2002 imo
In Monaco 2002 DC's car began smoking in a worrying way, but the team actually fixed the problem from the pit wall, effectively by remote control.
JV's problem at Melbourne in 1996 involved the car just losing oil out the back rather than smoking it, but your point stands.
One similar case I can think of was Berger's Ferrari at Jerez in 1989, when the car started smoking at about 1/3 distance but still finished 2nd.
Yep, I'd agree with your opinions about the first lap incidents Gav. Jaime did nothing really except be in the wrong place at the wrong time behind Hamilton, while Grosjean just seemed to crash into JB with no distracting circumstances and at a place where you have to expect the guy in front to be braking.
Woooo Kimi!! What an excellent first few laps for him, good start, then taking fisi at the restart!
Great for him winning here, he owns this track! 4 wins!
And great for force india and Fisi especially, really happy to see team up there!
Great for him winning here, he owns this track! 4 wins!
And great for force india and Fisi especially, really happy to see team up there!
DaveEllis Wrote:
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> 22 of the best drives means nothing. Accidents
> happen. If you penalise everyone who touches
> another car then you kill racing. And why does
> Jamie deserve a penalty?
Granted, Hamilton backed off, but it looked like Jamie didnt even attempt to avoid anything. Rubens probably gained well by taking to the grass there.
Accidents are expected Grosjean especially did a "Sato". Though he got what he deserved, as he tapped JB's behind, causing him to spin JB tapped Grosjean! I understand for an agressive start but that was Badoer style into Les Combs! Upto then Grosjean had an awesome start!
Piquets words on twitter are very childish, and respect I gained for him after a few words about Renault have just gone out the window!!!! Anyone with Piquet's twitter check it out...
Kimi, and Button both used the La Source pussy path. Not sure about JB's reasons but Kimi should perhaps stayed on track. Fuji 07, and even Spa 08?? Looks pretty similar to me. But again thats just because im still sore about Spa 08. Kimi gained an advantage, that much was sure. I get the idea for run-offs but at the start of races things like that are bound to happen, at least do something with the tarmac so it does not offer so much grip.
These sort of mistakes are not good enough for a team in championship contention. Whether it costs them the championship, its too early to say, but with their car pace also fading a bit, it will be very hard now they didn't take advantage of these opportunities.
Very costly! Happened in the last few years, Button doing his best to lose, and RedBull doing their best to lose!
In a way Button's come away as expected if not better. Before the weekend, before the race start I expected him to lose more than 2 points to Rubens, and more than 6 to Vettel/Webber. So from that perspective, saving an engine and losing perhaps less points than initially thought he's come away very well.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
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> 22 of the best drives means nothing. Accidents
> happen. If you penalise everyone who touches
> another car then you kill racing. And why does
> Jamie deserve a penalty?
Granted, Hamilton backed off, but it looked like Jamie didnt even attempt to avoid anything. Rubens probably gained well by taking to the grass there.
Accidents are expected Grosjean especially did a "Sato". Though he got what he deserved, as he tapped JB's behind, causing him to spin JB tapped Grosjean! I understand for an agressive start but that was Badoer style into Les Combs! Upto then Grosjean had an awesome start!
Piquets words on twitter are very childish, and respect I gained for him after a few words about Renault have just gone out the window!!!! Anyone with Piquet's twitter check it out...
Kimi, and Button both used the La Source pussy path. Not sure about JB's reasons but Kimi should perhaps stayed on track. Fuji 07, and even Spa 08?? Looks pretty similar to me. But again thats just because im still sore about Spa 08. Kimi gained an advantage, that much was sure. I get the idea for run-offs but at the start of races things like that are bound to happen, at least do something with the tarmac so it does not offer so much grip.
These sort of mistakes are not good enough for a team in championship contention. Whether it costs them the championship, its too early to say, but with their car pace also fading a bit, it will be very hard now they didn't take advantage of these opportunities.
Very costly! Happened in the last few years, Button doing his best to lose, and RedBull doing their best to lose!
In a way Button's come away as expected if not better. Before the weekend, before the race start I expected him to lose more than 2 points to Rubens, and more than 6 to Vettel/Webber. So from that perspective, saving an engine and losing perhaps less points than initially thought he's come away very well.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
I loved that race from start to finish. 
I was keeping half an eye on Vettel and Heidfeld in the closing stages as well, fantastic to see so many close battles going on all the way through the field.
Luca Badoer - On yer bike, mate. In fact, you'd probably be quicker on a bike than in a Ferrari.
I expect the Italians are in for a treat at Monza. Fisichella in a Ferrari and Liuzzi driving his home GP for Force India, and a genuine chance to score some good points, I reckon.
My two cents on the first lap incident; Hamilton had absolutely nowhere to go trying to avoid the carnage, and I expect Algesuari would be in exactly the same situation. No blame there. Romain Grosjean is certainly the most culpable for causing the accident, but is it really any more serious than your everyday altercation into the first proper braking zone of the lap? I think that maybe, because the outcome was worse than the incident itself, and the fact that Button is a Championship challenger, may influence the outcome of the stewards' decision.
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I was keeping half an eye on Vettel and Heidfeld in the closing stages as well, fantastic to see so many close battles going on all the way through the field.Luca Badoer - On yer bike, mate. In fact, you'd probably be quicker on a bike than in a Ferrari.
I expect the Italians are in for a treat at Monza.
Fisichella in a Ferrari and Liuzzi driving his home GP for Force India, and a genuine chance to score some good points, I reckon.My two cents on the first lap incident; Hamilton had absolutely nowhere to go trying to avoid the carnage, and I expect Algesuari would be in exactly the same situation. No blame there. Romain Grosjean is certainly the most culpable for causing the accident, but is it really any more serious than your everyday altercation into the first proper braking zone of the lap? I think that maybe, because the outcome was worse than the incident itself, and the fact that Button is a Championship challenger, may influence the outcome of the stewards' decision.
As much as id like to think I have the reactions of an F1 driver I dont :p! I would undoubtably pile right into Lewis, thats if I ever got it off the line 
!
Spa 98? Bad comparison. Spray was the dominating factor. Ill wait to look at it again, but I didnt think Jamie was that close to him, but I will have a look again later, I should mention the fact that it was Lewis who he took out may have slightly obscured my perception of just how close Jamie was. I obviously wasnt best pleased for Jenson and Lewis to both be out before they completed a lap.
Brilliant news for next year btw:
August 1 - Hungary (Budapest)
August 22 - Belgium (Spa-Francorchamps)
This year, Spa a week after Valencia was a blessing, Spa should always be after a boring race and thankfully the FIA have got something right!
Locke - Didnt the stewards anounce no action against either driver. Im pretty sure they just clased it as a racing incident.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2009 05:41PM by chet.
!Spa 98? Bad comparison. Spray was the dominating factor. Ill wait to look at it again, but I didnt think Jamie was that close to him, but I will have a look again later, I should mention the fact that it was Lewis who he took out may have slightly obscured my perception of just how close Jamie was. I obviously wasnt best pleased for Jenson and Lewis to both be out before they completed a lap.
Brilliant news for next year btw:
August 1 - Hungary (Budapest)
August 22 - Belgium (Spa-Francorchamps)
This year, Spa a week after Valencia was a blessing, Spa should always be after a boring race and thankfully the FIA have got something right!
Locke - Didnt the stewards anounce no action against either driver. Im pretty sure they just clased it as a racing incident.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2009 05:41PM by chet.
I understand that but with Grosjean it wasn't racing. It was ploughing into to Le Combs and hoping to stop the car on the dirty side later than Jenson. It was nothing more than a very over ambitious move into the turn. You, me and everyone else know damn well it was an accident bound to happen.
I hate penaltys for racing, Spa last year was a total farse, Montoya's various moves... but the move on Button was nothing like a racing incident. Cold tyres and cold brakes, and like I said on the dirty side and it was inevitable he would not make the corner properly.
That was not racing, that was complete stupidity. Why should another driver have to suffer for a rookies complete stupidity and willingness to get to the lead in the first couple corners. It's something I expect in F3, maybe GP2, but not F1. Grosjean was too feisty too early, like he has been in GP2. This is exactly the reason I didnt think he would be ready and questioned Renaults logic. He's damn quick, and looks to be not far off Alonso, but because of a stupid move he took a championship challenger out. Button gave him miles of room, he was very generious and Grosjean goes and bumps him... Racing incident, my arse. It was simply down to complete stupidity and being over ambitious.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
I hate penaltys for racing, Spa last year was a total farse, Montoya's various moves... but the move on Button was nothing like a racing incident. Cold tyres and cold brakes, and like I said on the dirty side and it was inevitable he would not make the corner properly.
That was not racing, that was complete stupidity. Why should another driver have to suffer for a rookies complete stupidity and willingness to get to the lead in the first couple corners. It's something I expect in F3, maybe GP2, but not F1. Grosjean was too feisty too early, like he has been in GP2. This is exactly the reason I didnt think he would be ready and questioned Renaults logic. He's damn quick, and looks to be not far off Alonso, but because of a stupid move he took a championship challenger out. Button gave him miles of room, he was very generious and Grosjean goes and bumps him... Racing incident, my arse. It was simply down to complete stupidity and being over ambitious.
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
Heh, word from the Brazilian press is that the FIA have opened an investigation on the 2008 Singapore GP results for the Nelson Piquet crash that resulted in giving Alonso the win. Apparently Briatore said that it was a direct order to Nelson to do it on purpose. Don't know if international press is into that or not.
I ended up not watching the race. Just like Valencia, I was too tired to wake up early. I'm just glad Kimi won though...that must've been a chip of his back, regardless if the dude is the Iceman or not. This season is mighty boring without Ferrari and McLaren at the top. But since Kimi did win this, I'll watch the race later
I ended up not watching the race. Just like Valencia, I was too tired to wake up early. I'm just glad Kimi won though...that must've been a chip of his back, regardless if the dude is the Iceman or not. This season is mighty boring without Ferrari and McLaren at the top. But since Kimi did win this, I'll watch the race later
There have been far worse moves by far worse drivers and it was an accident, but very much an avoidable one in his case.
[news.bbc.co.uk]
Slowed down, but by far not enough! I'd expect that sort move in touring cars or something but being a rookie does not excuse him from what was essentially a major misjudgement which not only cost Jenson but others too. No different to his other silly moves this year...
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
[news.bbc.co.uk]
Slowed down, but by far not enough! I'd expect that sort move in touring cars or something but being a rookie does not excuse him from what was essentially a major misjudgement which not only cost Jenson but others too. No different to his other silly moves this year...
"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL
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