The Final F1 Pre-Season Test :O

DaveEllis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Prost.

Its not often one word can explain alot.

It is possible, and I guess probable. But then it is possible for them to have a gem of a car.

Under Nick Fry I guess I could accept the running low fuel, underweight. With Ross Brawn I dont think it is likley. Imagine the abuse they will get when they turn upto Melbourne qualifying dead last?

Low fuel ? Probably.

Illegal ? Highly doubt it.

Besides, running low fuel is logical at this stage. They are looking for a baseline setup, running low fuel, doing short stints is a good way of doing this. Racing, well testing, well generally motorsport is quick analysis, results, and application. Short stints, low fuel at this stage is logical.

As much as it pains me, I doubt this pace is genuine. I hope, and will keep hoping until Melbourne. Only then we any of us know. Other than that, a good day. I expected 100+ laps though.

---

"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

Well but a fourth place to Chetson Button in his first 09 test are always good

As people said they did a number of laps in the 1:21 range so thats still better than others so they could not have been on fumes.

But according to some reports the Brawn car has a few things on it that yet again the other are not meant to be happy with.

I think after the 1st race there could be a few questions about some of the cars.

Mclaren ran the 2009 for most of the day and cut slots on the underbody of the car near the rear wheels.

Really does sound like that are having problems with the rear end of that car, not good at this stage.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2009 06:43PM by marcl.

I still think McLaren are going to turn up at Melbourne and finish on the podium with relative ease. So far as I'm aware, no one has complained that it's unstable in the corners and visually rear tyre wear seems no worse than anyone else, despite some early reports (read: assumptions).

I just think they're doing what BMW did last year - sandbag, so no one knows your pace, so when you're doing laps in practice no one can guess your strategy.

Brawn... well he's a technically minded guy, so I'm sure he'd loved to have gone about the test in a normal manner, but he's also the boss now, and if he needs to cement a sponsor, then he'll do what's necessary (whether the car was underweight or whatever). There is no way on God's green earth that that car is capable of doing a simple shakedown, then at the very next test, within 30 laps, jump to the top of the leaderboard by what was then miles. It might turn out to be fast later on, but unless they've been undertaking some secret testing somewhere without anyone anywhere knowing, then it just can't be that good. It's just not possible. I think everyone (Bruno excluded) wants the team to do well after such a rough ride, but it can't be that fast yet.

On a separate note, how complex is that front-wing? It's got more elements than the periodic table.

here is no way on God's green earth that that car is capable of doing a simple shakedown, then at the very next test, within 30 laps, jump to the top of the leaderboard by what was then miles

Its possible. But not likley. The redbull did almost the same.

Lets not forget the team has not been sitting there doing nothing. They have been developing the car asif nothing ever happened. Though on a slightly limited level, the car has been developing. No testing does not automatically mean no development and that they start off where everyone else did at the start of the year... In terms of its life cycle, I would say this car is at the same place as the rest. Not behind, no infront.

The front wing a good example. Clearly that was not the initial design. I wouldnt be suprised if it were Melbourne spec actually.

edit - diffuser again another example. Looks alot more refined than Renaults, Mclarens, BMWs and a few others.

edit 2 - I remember reading 90% of the laptime Mclaren found lsat year came from their MTC and work on setup rather than testing and working on setup ! I cant give you a source unfortunatly, but I can believe it.

---

"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2009 07:29PM by chet.

Designing a car is fine. I've no problems with that. It's fairly clear they've used their extra time in the factory well.... but they've no data at all. If this was their genuine pace they're going to completely rip everyone else apart in Melbourne, McLaren '98 style. Do you really think that's going to happen?

I could understand a bit more if they'd done this at the end of the week, when they had some numbers to play with, but not 30 laps into their first test when everyone else has been testing for weeks.

Stop deluding yourself Chettyboy. You'll only end up disappointed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2009 07:34PM by gav.

Button's lap was faster than the fastest lap at last years race. Hard to know if the times are genuinely leaping forward that amount or if Brawn are out-and-out Prosting. I'm inclined to go for the latter. The question is will they be hopelessly off the pace or will they be at least matching the rest of the field.

McLaren's a tough one to call too. Even if they aren't properly at the sharp end then I reckon they will at least be 3rd or 4th in the pecking order.

Given today I fully expect BGP will be mixing it with the tail-end in Melbourne, rather than the miles off it I was expecting last week, but it will be interesting to see if performance dips from the middle to end of stints with their comparative lack of tyre data.

I have to say - I was expecting them to be way off the pace early on, so even if they're 'Prosting', I still think it's been a remarkable achievement (you can't gain that much by going underweight, unless they've got something else dodgy going on too. If getting to Melbourne was a minor-miracle, then it's a fairly major one if they get there with a half-competitive package!

gav Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Designing a car is fine. I've no problems with
> that. It's fairly clear they've used their extra
> time in the factory well.... but they've no data
> at all. If this was their genuine pace they're
> going to completely rip everyone else apart in
> Melbourne, McLaren '98 style. Do you really think
> that's going to happen?

Now that would be being deluded .

>
> I could understand a bit more if they'd done this
> at the end of the week, when they had some numbers
> to play with, but not 30 laps into their first
> test when everyone else has been testing for
> weeks.
>
> Stop deluding yourself Chettyboy. You'll only end
> up disappointed.

I am under no illusion. I am just saying what they did is possible.

They have numbers from the shaker rig and wind-tunnel, and of course being able to computer simulate their developments whether they be aerodynamic or mechanical. Of course track testing is needed to varify alot of these numbers, but that is what they are doing now. They have probably spent this time refining what they want to take to the track... Last week ForceIndia debuted, again with very very impressive times for a debut, this is no different.

Like I said before, I probably think they are light at at most doing 4-5 lap stints. But like I also said that is logical at this stage to get good baseline setup for the rest of the test when they can concentrate on longer runs.

When we come to Melbourne, if they are in the top 5 I will be quite suprised. Like I said I am under no illusion about their situation. My initial point was that them being this quick, and genuinley this quick was indeed possible. I did not say they were this quick, just that its possible.

Besides, after hearing the news that they will be on the grid, even if at the back I will be far from disapointed !

---

"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

I think that's the question...are they running dodgy cars? Unless they've got sponsorship already fully sorted, they have to push to impress at these tests. I wouldn't blame them for running illegal stuff given their current situation, not in the slightest. But I think since they have have Merc's engine and there's a clear McLaren influence in the design of the car, they're certainly not going to end up doing a Lola.

I'm reasonably savvy on old-ish F1, but what's the relation between BrawnGP and Prost, with regards to testing?!

---

Everyone knows that million-to-one chances happen 9 times out of 10; indeed, it's a common requirement in fairy tales. If the human didn't have to overcome huge odds, what would be the point? Terry Pratchett - The Science Of Discworld

GPGSL S5 Race driver for IED.

I can see McLaren trying to bully their way over FI or BGP to get their rear solved :P

turkey_machine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm reasonably savvy on old-ish F1, but what's the
> relation between BrawnGP and Prost, with regards
> to testing?!

Prost (the team) had a tendency to take the car outside of the regulations in pre-season testing in order to impress potential sponsors... of course, come Melbourne, they just went back to where everyone expected - the mid-to-rear of the field... somewhere where I still expect to find BrawnGP come Melbourne, Chet.

as far as i remember, didn't Prost F1 run ridiculously light to attract sponsors, so a delusional level, only to start the year hideously slow.

regarding brawn gp and buttons times, i genuinely feel this isn't a dog of a car as we think. dont forget honda scrapped 2008 early in the season to focus on 2009. theyve also had a LOT of time to develop this car, and the stronger mercedes engine (arguable, that one) can only do them favours I think.

i feel brawn gp will be mid table at worst, theyve just had no track time. look at toro rosso last year testing pre-season - not much with th enew car, and then BAM as the season unfolded they were nippy little buggers! ok it was a red bull mk 2, but it wasn't EXACTLY the same!

i said it before and I will say it again, odds of trulli or glock for podiums in melbourne. 66-1 trulli still tempts me for the win.


Jenson drives it like he owns it; Lewis drives it like he stole it

I'm not saying it's a dog by any means - just that I believe the times we've seen so far aren't representative of where the team currently is. I've seen nothing to see why they can't be consistently in the points (on performance, not reliability) by the European season.

A lot of the comments in this thread does pass off the notion that the car was done in the last couple of months. Sure, they probably don't have the pace to win races on a consistent basis, but I'd be very surprised if the car can't be mid to front by the third race or so. Sure, it was Honda developing, but a car that's being developed for almost a year now, with Ross taking a close look at it, has no reason to be at the back of the field again.

Looks like we are wrong about mclaren and they have been waiting for this week.

Just read Autosport and their car now has things on it that could well prove an advantage we shall see.

Today they were just evaluating parts without trying for times.

Dan, put in tenners for those Toyota, RBR and BMW drivers, you might just make enough money to buy yourself pizza for a whole month and also supply me with some pizza for about 2 weeks!

marcl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Looks like we are wrong about mclaren and they
> have been waiting for this week.
>
> Just read Autosport and their car now has things
> on it that could well prove an advantage we shall
> see.
>
> Today they were just evaluating parts without
> trying for times.

Well, maybe they found a way to fix it in this test, but they were having problems before...otherwise they wouldn't be using the 2008 spec rear wing so much.

[www.autosport.com]

Look's good to me