Japanese Grand Prix Thread !!!***Spoilers***!!!

7 seconds behind a car that had stopped once had a drive through, rather than a car that had a drive through, a spin and a pit stop. So that means Lewis made up about 25-30 seconds on massa. For me thats more impressive than the drive of massa. And he was in a damaged car.


man , this 7 secs weren't the time after the pits, this was after Button, the gap after the penalty was about 12 secs , Felipe lost 5 secs behind Button then passed and immediatelly increased the gap again , duuno what was the extension of the damage in Lewis' car, but live timing just showed that.

As I said Massa done the right thing starting on the soft tyres, as we saw with just about everyone they had problems with them. Lewis done near enough half the race on them so lost alot of time at the end of the race.

I am not saying he had a stunning drive btw I am just saying in that long stint after the 2nd lap he made up a lot of time on Massa. Massa lost a load of time getting stuck behind RB.

I dont think I am getting what I am trying to say written down very well tbh.

It wasn't RB it was JB , RB pitted when was 3.9 ahead of Felipe

I am sure it was RB, but then could be wrong. I am sure Ron said it was and Brundle did at the time.

It's fair to say the Ferrari's were not working well in the race for some reason (presumably the cold temperatures). They only ever came alive towards the end of their stints.

Given that the final sector is all slow corners and highly dependant on mechanical grip, it was clear to see that neither Ferrari was going to cruise up behind cars and simply blitz past.

They just didn't have the pace until the fuel had worn off, as their tyres weren't working as hard as other cars, so were in better shape at the end of a stint.

Massa was the only guy who really made the softs work properly.

Lap Place Passer (Passed)
==========================================
2 8 Glock (Piquet)
2 15 Webber (Fisichella)
3 10 Vettel (Button)
3 11 Sutil (Button)
3 14 Webber (Heidfeld)
4 14 Heidfeld (Webber)
4 13 Heidfeld (Barrichello)
4 14 Webber (Barrichello)
6 11 Heidfeld (Button)
6 12 Webber (Button)
8 4 Räikkönen (Trulli)
9 10 Webber (Heidfeld)
9 12 Barrichello (Button) [team-mates]
10 13 Fisichella (Button)
10 14 Rosberg (Button)
15 13 Rosberg (Fisichella)
28 10 Rosberg (Barrichello)
29 12 Massa (Button)
34 13 Hamilton (Button)
40 10 Massa (Webber)
42 12 Hamilton (Barrichello)
60 9 Massa (Heidfeld)
65 8 Massa (Webber)


23 passes in total, compared to 46 in last year's (wet)
race.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2008 04:31PM by Rodrigo007.

Massa was on the softs for his 1st stint to get them out the way, he was on the harder ones for the next stints so come the end of the race he had an advantage. Plus anyway Webber was on a 1 stop like Lewis got moved to.

Ok cool thanks for that, it was button then.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2008 04:29PM by marcl.

Rodrigo007 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 7 seconds behind a car that had stopped once had a
> drive through, rather than a car that had a drive
> through, a spin and a pit stop. So that means
> Lewis made up about 25-30 seconds on massa. For me
> thats more impressive than the drive of massa. And
> he was in a damaged car.
>
>
> man , this 7 secs weren't the time after the pits,
> this was after Button, the gap after the penalty
> was about 12 secs , Felipe lost 5 secs behind
> Button then passed and immediatelly increased the
> gap again , duuno what was the extension of the
> damage in Lewis' car, but live timing just showed
> that.

Ok I still can not work out then after a spin a pit stop and a drive through Lewis was only 12 seconds behind Massa after his drive through?

yeah that was what live timing updated 1 lap after Felipe's drive through

webber did a good job considering he was pretty much last after turn 1.

---

X (@ed24f1)

marcl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Massa was on the softs for his 1st stint to get
> them out the way, he was on the harder ones for
> the next stints so come the end of the race he had
> an advantage. Plus anyway Webber was on a 1 stop
> like Lewis got moved to.

Massa used the softs for both of the first 2 stints, only moving to the hard in the final stint.

Everyone else who used them fell away in pace, and Lewis had to pussyfoot around so they didn't fail, so you could see his stayed quite intact, though he didn't have any real pace for that reason.

Probably due to him messing up his stratery and having to be on them for so long, we saw the state of Webbers.

I think if Kovy was not there and Kimi would be slow enough then he would have been able to turn 1 since Lewis has already in front of him on his way going off the track.

Good job kovy did go wide as kubica has already said he would have hit him lol.

watercolours schreef:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think if Kovy was not there and Kimi would be
> slow enough then he would have been able to turn 1
> since Lewis has already in front of him on his way
> going off the track.
>
> [img359.imageshack.us]
> 081014193255lv5.png


but punishing someone who already retires is useless.

watercolours Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think if Kovy was not there and Kimi would be
> slow enough then he would have been able to turn 1
> since Lewis has already in front of him on his way
> going off the track.
>
>

But the simple fact is he wasnt going slowly. That pic makes it look like Kimi had any option of turning right had HK not been there, but they were carrying some serious speed at the time. Even if it put full lock on at that very moment he would of understeered madly or given he must of been braking would of spun.

(Not a dig btw)

We now have this from the Formula1.com website:

[www.formula1.com]

Some pretty good footage there, including a Massa mirror-cam of the Massa-Bourdais clash, onboards from Hamilton and Massa when they clashed, and onboard from Hamilton and TV cameras of the start.

---

Everyone knows that million-to-one chances happen 9 times out of 10; indeed, it's a common requirement in fairy tales. If the human didn't have to overcome huge odds, what would be the point? Terry Pratchett - The Science Of Discworld

GPGSL S5 Race driver for IED.

Every time i see that massa crash with lewis i think he deserved a black flag, i know you all dont agree. Its an awful attempt to get back on track he was never going to make the corner like that.

Also the start lewis had every right to try that move kimi left the door wide open and tried closing it well to late. And when he did it was just a silly jink to the right. We have seen many starts like that in the past with no penalty.

Out of all the penalties given out the only one who deserved one was massa, and he got away to light with a drive through.

As i said before had he taken lewis out, lewis would have got a 10 place grid drop at the next race as he would not have been able to take his penalty.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2008 10:22PM by marcl.

Opposite for me, and the same with the Bourdais incident.

The track-side cameras are always going to be exaggeratingly incriminating from those angles, but looking at the full-speed onboard from Massa, you can clearly see what he's attempting, but by the time he'd committed, the gap was going. He had no alternative other than the try to simply assault the kerb.

I still maintain he fully deserved his penalty, but at full speed onboard, it looks a hell of a lot better than watching slow-mos.

The Bourdais one is looking worse for me too. It does look like he's sliding towards Massa, but is that because Massa's taken his space, so he's stamped on the brakes, or because he's simply over-committed? I thought the latter previously, but I'm swaying the other way now.

Hamilton's start looks a hell of a lot worse onboard too. A hell of a lot worse. What the hell was he thinking? That's a guy not suffering from pressure? Yeah...

You can also see from the cameras that at no point is Kimi trying to avoid Heikki. He was always going off the track. Heikki just made it worse.

Bourdais slid off the curb, he had his front tyre on there to avoid massa.

Everyone is always going to have different views

Watch the start form spain 2007, at the time i said alonso was stupid but massa pushed him off.





There are loads on youtube worse than japan where no one said anything.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2008 10:36PM by marcl.