Japanese Grand Prix Thread !!!***Spoilers***!!!

So little time to commit to a move and then all the time in the world for the consequences.
However, I thought Hamilton did not deserve a penalty at turn 1.
Massa certainly deserved a penalty for the curb prang with Hamilton.
Massa and Bourdais looked like a racing incident.

The race was entertaining for it's foolishness, but what a mickey mouse track. So many parabolic corners are bound to make drivers crazy before they get to the only decent overtaking spot, turn 1.
Get back to the Zuk!

IMO it's okay to not agree with FIA in some decisions but saying they're biased just because got frustrated with it is a bit harsh, i think had they be trully biased they would just say the move in Lewis was race-incident. Anyways, there are ppl that prefer to ignore, some even say the entity is making everything possible to give Massa the title.

heh, like Felipe was a marketing machine... from these 3 tops surely Lewis and Kimi make alot more money with that , they're kind of ppl that make merchandising ppl happy, they're what these guys wish to invest, Massa was never a marketing best-seller, seriously, do you go to a gp and see alot of ppl with #2 hats , Massa messages, Felipe fanboys, Ferrari with Brazilian flag and all??? Fia has no gain had they by some opinions putting efforts in Felipe, to say what from him? That he is the new Brazillian winner after Ayrton? man thats' pretty meh.. if anything they would just get ppl saying he was 5 spin chap champ, had a bad f1 career start like Nelson, undeserved seat ,etc.. what from Lewis? new Senna, youngest champion ever, super new talent champ , Ecclestone happy and all. So seems there's not much point in Fia doing this , yes there are still teams to refer but the gain on it wouldn't be the same as on a person only, it's like the character sells more than the general(team) with less investment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2008 03:54PM by Rodrigo007.

Trulli is going to speak to Lewis in China as he says he ignored the blue flags for a lap. If Lewis had done that he would have got a penalty.

This coming from the guy who drove the wrong way up the track and spun the car round in front of drivers in Spa.

Its not just mclaren that find them selves on the wrong side of the FIA even Force India's Mike made a comment at Monaco about it.

Kovy blocks Webber on a quali run and gets a 5 place grid penalty. Nick blocks RB gets 3 place drop, work that one out?

All the penalties Lewis has had this year are fair, I dont agree with them all simply as people have not got them before for the same thing. Maybe this year the FIA are just being harder.

But as I have said some drivers get them but some dont, then they get them in one race and did not before for doing the same thing. I just dont get it.

The whole race steward thing needs changing for next year.

marcl Wrote:
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> This coming from the guy who drove the wrong way
> up the track and spun the car round in front of
> drivers in Spa.

I've not seen it, but apparently he did it in Singapore practice too, when he spun in the final corner, then drove the wrong way for a short distance to get to the pit-entrance.


You're right though. It needs a complete overhaul, and it needs opening up so we and the other teams know WTF is going on. A piece of paper saying they infringed upon rule X isn't enough.

I'd love the drivers briefings and any investigations (both during and after the race) to be made available after races, either in video or audio form. I think it would give us plenty of food for thought and give us an insight into what the @#$%& is going through their heads sometimes.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2008 04:20PM by gav.

Yeah Gav thats the track I was talking about, he spun then drove the wrong way and cut into the pits. At Spa he spun the car round and a williams had to go up the escape road.

So I think he has a bit of a cheak to moan about a blue flag which are monitored anyway.

I think they applied the penalty to Hami not only because of Kimi but i think in this case there were some other cars harmed too, would like to have a kimi onboard but only got Massa, anyways you ann see he got probs also due the move in front



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2008 05:01PM by Rodrigo007.

some interesting penalties in this race.

i agree with the first two, but the last one is hard to tell. hopefully we get bourdais onboard footage in the Season Review DVD to clear it up a bit

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X (@ed24f1)

Just had a thought.

Lewis is very very lucky. Had Massa taken him out the gp he would not have been able to take his drive through penalty, this would have meant a 10 place grid drop in China.

Massa is lucky seeing the above video that kimi did not hit him.

Honestly. Nothing wrong here.

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Did you not watch the video?

Though Heikki should have got one too.

gav Wrote:
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> Did you not watch the video?
>
> Though Heikki should have got one too.


I did, ten times, yet I can only blame Heikki for hitting Kimi. The others did nothing wrong.

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Heikki hit Kimi, yes. But Lewis' move wasn't quite smart either.

As I said earlier (but nobody cared to respond :P), could it be that it was all set up? Lewis and Heikki both did exactly the same.

As I suggested before, dry start was a first in Fuji and Alonso said this at the press conference : yeah, the start was probably the most exciting part of the race, for sure. I saw the people in front of me going quite aggressively into turn one. I myself locked the front tyres and I went a little bit wide. But I think it surprised us in a way as with the cold temperatures most of us started with the prime tyres and then we locked the tyres and everybody went long,
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GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2008 05:25PM by BAR#10.

Nickv schreef:
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> Heikki hit Kimi, yes. But Lewis' move wasn't quite
> smart either.
>
> As I said earlier (but nobody cared to respond
> :P), could it be that it was all set up? Lewis and
> Heikki both did exactly the same.


No, I think as Lewis brakes late, everybody brakes quite late behind him, as they try to watch where the one on front brakes, and brake at the same time, if the one in the lead brakes late, theres a big chance people behind brake at the same point, normally you have a braking point, mostly something next to the track indicates where you need to brake (everybody has it, just drive in a game and you automaticly try to find indications where to brake, it can be a sign, it can be something on the tarmac, everything), but at the start, with so many cars next to each other, you can always see your braking point.

From the Massa onboard video the penalty for Hamilton does look rather harsh. If Kovy wasn't running wide behind Hamilton, Kimi may have even been able to nip round the back of him. But the fact that Kovy was there makes the incident appear much much worse. If Kovy hadnt also ran wide i feel certain Hamilton would not have recieved the penalty.

I said that as well, yes lewis pushed kimi wide but not off kovy done that.

We saw it at spa as well no one was given a penalty there.

I dont think it was set up at all, do u honestly think both lewis and kovy would risk their race.

Lewis messed up his start but for me kovy was more guilty than him. The only thing though had lewis not pushed kimi wide kovy would not have hit him, he would have got massa instead.

I just dont know to be honest, the penalty was given its harsh but now the drivers know not to do it. Had it been lap 2 and lewis done that move and kimi went wide i dont think there would have been a penalty.

Kimi also cost himself time by trying to come back on the track there, had he carried on like lewis and kovy he would not have been so far back. He done that in Spa before people say its wrong.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2008 06:32PM by marcl.

It's going back to Spa though. If you can stay on the track, you should. The get out of jail free card shouldn't be used as an extension of the race track.

It bugs the hell out of me, this trend for pushing people off just because there's no grass, there's grass-crete and tarmac everywhere. I want something sticky off track. Like hot tar or something. Other than some very select instances, drives never used to push people off when it was just grass and gravel. They don't do this in Monaco, they race side-by-side.

Gav I fully agree but there were 6 cars at spa this year that used that run off and used it right up the straight, some did not even bother to try and take the 1st corner. Some of the cars were pushed out there though but nothing got said or done.

Its the same in Germany at the hairpin near enough every single move I have seen there end up with someone using the run off area due to being pushed off by the person doing the pass. No one has ever got a penalty for that either.

I am all for safety but these run off are affecting the racing, had there been gravel at the 1st corner in japan 4 drivers would have been out. But watching all the videos lewis only caused kimi to go 2 wheels off track at most and that does not count as pushing someone off the track.

marcl Wrote:
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> I said that as well, yes lewis pushed kimi wide
> but not off kovy done that.
>
> We saw it at spa as well no one was given a
> penalty there.
>
> I dont think it was set up at all, do u honestly
> think both lewis and kovy would risk their race.
>
> Lewis messed up his start but for me kovy was more
> guilty than him. The only thing though had lewis
> not pushed kimi wide kovy would not have hit him,
> he would have got massa instead.

Lewis also turned accross on Heikki at the start, a dodgy move if the had touched. The penalty was fair IMO, the one against Bourdais was not however.

Actually when u see that move on kovy from the massa on board cam there was lots of room it just looked closer from the head on cam.