Japanese Grand Prix Thread !!!***Spoilers***!!!

superchargednut Wrote:
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> Does anyone have a photo of Lewis getting turned
> round by Massa?




best i can get right now

Someone explain a mistery to me:
How did LH end up 6th in 1st or 2nd lap when he was second or third after the start?

---

GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP

What was Bourdais punished for?

Not letting a Ferrari past and being less than 25 seconds behind said Ferrari.

_______________________________________________________________________

BAR#10 Wrote:
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> Someone explain a mistery to me:
> How did LH end up 6th in 1st or 2nd lap when he
> was second or third after the start?

I think he had a fight with ALO for P2 and somehow he managed to get to 6th. Probably he tried to break later and missed a corner.

I'm rooting for Massa, but even I went "WTF" when I saw that Bourdais got penalised. But other than that, well done to STR nevertheless, BOTH their cars are able of getting decent results now. And well done to Renault, two in two, not bad for a team that looked totally out of it only a few months ago.

sasjag Wrote:
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> I have NFI what Hamilton was trying to achieve
> going into T1, complete and utter n00bery, and
> with moves like that he doesn't deserve to win the
> championship, and the drive through was completely
> justified.
>
>
>
>
>
> Now it's well documented I'm a Lewis Fan boy, but
> if there is a God, Kubica will win this WDC
> somehow. Lewis is still too much of a n00b to win
> it,

*imagine image of Piccard's facepalm*

He is not a friggin noob, he just did not tame his insticts
and went for a gutsy move as the start didn't go well.
The mistake he made was mostly due to there never was a dry start in Fuji, so he broke too late.
If he played it safe (aka just collecting points, not in terms of endagering others), I'd say he wouldn't deserve the title. But if he provides exciting racing(move on Glock excluded), I say go Lewis despite of his supposed arogance this year.

---

GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2008 06:47PM by BAR#10.

BAR#10 Wrote:
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> Someone explain a mistery to me:
> How did LH end up 6th in 1st or 2nd lap when he
> was second or third after the start?

You can watch it here. Hamilton makes a mistake in turn 3.

[rs300.rapidshare.com]

And that proves that it was Kovy that hit Kimi.

Yes it was kovy that hit kimi and forced him off all lewis done was screw up his own race. The link i posted shows that as well.

Kimi would have made the corner had it not been for kovy going in to deep.

requenov Wrote:
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> BAR#10 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Someone explain a mistery to me:
> > How did LH end up 6th in 1st or 2nd lap when he
> > was second or third after the start?
>
> You can watch it here. Hamilton makes a mistake in
> turn 3.
>
> [rs300.rapidshare.com]
> .AE-F1.start.avi
Great, thanks!
Hard to say what it caused for sure, maybe a genuine mistake, maybe dirty air effect from Alonso'car.

---

GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP

Ah so Heikki did hit Kimi. No wonder he slid back to 7th at that time and Hamilton went wide! no wonder he was down in 6th after the second corner

edit: thanks for uploading the video



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2008 07:38PM by Monza972.

After seeing the videos I dont think Lewis should have got that penalty tbh what do you think?

Funny enough kimi has changed his report to say only one mclaren hit him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2008 07:53PM by marcl.

BAR#10 Wrote:
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> *imagine image of Piccard's facepalm*

learn to googleimage

> He is not a friggin noob, he just did not tame his
> insticts
> and went for a gutsy move as the start didn't go
> well.

one would argue that's very..I don't know...n00b like? yeah he messed the start up, but teher was no need to go flying up the inside like that. When the likes of Alonso, Kimi, MS do/did that, they realised there is still a whole race left to make up those positions. "you cant win a race at teh first corner, but you can lose it". guess what? he lost it. even if he had made that corner, he'd @#$%& his tyres up so bad he compromised his race.

> The mistake he made was mostly due to there never
> was a dry start in Fuji, so he broke too late.


My bullshit meter is off the scale here. There had never been a dry start at Singapore either, but he didnt go into T1 with his wheels locked did he? he got flustered at his bad start and tried to do too much too soon.

> If he played it safe (aka just collecting points,
> not in terms of endagering others), I'd say he
> wouldn't deserve the title. But if he provides
> exciting racing(move on Glock excluded), I say go
> Lewis despite of his supposed arogance this year.

you can provide exciting racing and play it safe, they are not mutually exclusive.

Sim

---

All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!

"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole

sasjag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BAR#10 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > *imagine image of Piccard's facepalm*
>
> learn to googleimage

I rather save the bandwith than post images of one internet fad that can't die fast enough.




one would argue that's very..I don't know...n00b
> like? yeah he messed the start up, but teher was
> no need to go flying up the inside like that. When
> the likes of Alonso, Kimi, MS do/did that, they
> realised there is still a whole race left to make
> up those positions. "you cant win a race at teh
> first corner, but you can lose it". guess what? he
> lost it. even if he had made that corner, he'd
> @#$%& his tyres up so bad he compromised his
> race.

Yes, drivers should tame their instincts. *rollseyes*






> My bullshit meter is off the scale here. There had
> never been a dry start at Singapore either, but he
> didnt go into T1 with his wheels locked did he? he
> got flustered at his bad start and tried to do too
> much too soon.

There was never a single start in Singapore, not only a dry one.
Different situation anyway.

>
> you can provide exciting racing and play it safe,
> they are not mutually exclusive.

Yes, driving from start to finish at fourh place would be very exciting.

---

GPGSL career;
Current team: Team ShadowSubaru, Previous teams: MPR, Minardi
starts:100 Wins: 12, Podiums: 34, Fastest Laps: 14, poles: 12 Points: 708
winner of Belgian GP (s1), Australian GP (s1), Canadian GP (S1), Brazilian GP(s4, s5), Hungarian GP(s3), Italian GP(s3), French GP (s5,s7), Monaco GP (s4) and USA GP

Hmm. More touch and go. Certainly Kovailenen should have got the penalty, but had he not been there, would Kimi have made the corner? He wasn't avoiding Heikki, he was avoiding Lewis (twice, as was said at the time).

It's not as clear cut as we thought, but I'm not saying it didn't deserve a penalty. I'd probably have erred on the side of no penalty and just hard racing, but it's a very, very fine line on that one.



Away from rules, regulations and controversy:

Bit closer between Hamilton and Alonso at turn 3 than I thought it would be, but a nice defence by Alonso. At least Hamilton thought twice about that one (so a shame he @#$%& it up 75m later really).

Hamilton vs Massa: Not defending Massa at all (it was stupid and deservedly punished), but Lewis was an idiot. He neither defended nor attacked Massa. He placed his car a good 0.5-1m away from the apex in the 2nd part of the chicane. All that's doing is inviting someone to stick their nose down the inside, but not leaving them enough room to do it cleanly. You've got to do one or the other. Ignore turn 1 - for me, that was the first sign he was suffering from indecision and perhaps nerves in this championship for me.

The whole thing is though did lewis need to pass kimi, no. Did lewis need to pass alonso, no.

Did lewis need to pass massa yes and as far as i am concerned he did. Alot of you said in spa lewis should have broke and not take to the escape road to avoid kimi. So by taking into account what you all said that means massa should have broke and not cut over the chicane. What we saw today was the reason lewis cut that chicane to avoid doing what massa did. Did massa hit lewis on purpose no way massa aint like that.

The penalty today for lewis was forcing kimi of track, he did not kovy did. We often see a pass with the driver with his brakes locked stopping the other car from turning in that is the point of over taking. Its not lewis fault Kovy also broke to late and hit kimi and caused kimi to go off.

I am sure had the FIA looked again they would have seen this and not given lewis the penalty, maybe.

All the FIA are doing is stopping over taking which they are trying to encourage I just dont get it. Drivers are going to mess up from time to time and the start is critical to a race.

Mclaren know though they need to get this championship over before brazil as in the past massa has been to string there.

I know some of you wont agree with what I said.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2008 08:53PM by marcl.

No, I agree, and wth was with the Bourdais penalty.

marcl Wrote:
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> Did lewis need to pass massa yes and as far as i
> am concerned he did. Alot of you said in spa
> lewis should have broke and not take to the escape
> road to avoid kimi. So by taking into account
> what you all said that means massa should have
> broke and not cut over the chicane. What we saw
> today was the reason lewis cut that chicane to
> avoid doing what massa did. Did massa hit lewis
> on purpose no way massa aint like that.

No, Lewis cut the chicane as it was the easy way out. Massa could have done exactly the same today, but chose to try to stick to the track, which is exactly the way it ought to be. What he did afterwards was completely messed up, but Lewis didn't cut the chicane to avoid doing that, he just cut the chicane. It was very, very simple for Massa to simply blend out of the throttle or brake, just as it was for Hamilton.

Massa either took the opportunity for a look back inside Hamilton and either misjudged it, or just messed up completely.


marcl Wrote:
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> The penalty today for lewis was forcing kimi of
> track, he did not kovy did. We often see a pass
> with the driver with his brakes locked stopping
> the other car from turning in that is the point of
> over taking. Its not lewis fault Kovy also broke
> to late and hit kimi and caused kimi to go off.

Sorry, I don't agree with that at all. Watch it frame-by-frame. Kimi was about a foot away from the grass-crete and on full, or near full lock, heading off the track when Heikki hit him. He made no real attempt to avoid Heikki until after Heikki had hit him, so presumably didn't know he was there anyway. Had Heikki not been there at all, Kimi would still have gone off - perhaps not as badly, but he was forced off by Hamilton going off.



marcl Wrote:
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> All the FIA are doing is stopping over taking
> which they are trying to encourage I just dont get
> it. Drivers are going to mess up from time to
> time and the start is critical to a race.

I can see your point, but after Spa, was there any difference? Monza? Singapore? Here, both before and after the DTs? It made no difference to the mentality of the drivers.

That said, there will be a point in the future where thinking twice comes in, and that's more dangerous than anything we've seen. I do hope there is a complete overhaul, because some of the choices they are making are plain bizarre (namely the Bourdais one of course). They really, really need to clarify exactly why they handed him his penalty. I don't mean hand out a sheet of paper, saying he was in violation of article x of rule x. They need to issue a statement giving details. It was pure bollocks. All the other penalties this season you could argue the cause for, even if you didn't agree at all, but until we're told otherwise and giving details as to why, that one is just plain wrong.

Hamilton is waking up the ghosts of last year...
i really really want to see him in China... i don't think he's learned his lesson..

Great, awesome Alonso, what a talent!, no wonder why everyone wants him, really

Hamilton drives like he's alone in the track, obviously some might say my opinion is very biased, as i'm cheering for Massa, but in T1 he went donw the inside without caring if Kovalainen was there, and then imo he didn't gave much room to massa in that chicane, had he given more space, i'm sure he would've got ahead anyway.. the guy is either nervous or drives like he is alone out there, it's not the first time he done it, as we all saw at Monza

anyways bring on China!.. i'm predicing a Front wing change on lap 1 for Hamilton :p

gav Wrote:
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> Hmm. More touch and go. Certainly Kovailenen
> should have got the penalty, but had he not been
> there, would Kimi have made the corner? He wasn't
> avoiding Heikki, he was avoiding Lewis (twice, as
> was said at the time).
>
> It's not as clear cut as we thought, but I'm not
> saying it didn't deserve a penalty. I'd probably
> have erred on the side of no penalty and just hard
> racing, but it's a very, very fine line on that
> one.

I think Kimi would've made it if Heikki wasn't there. Lewis nose dived in straight away leaving Kimi no room and Lewis, being in front of his team mate, made Heikki lock up and couldn't react to it and had to go in the direction where Kimi was heading thus hitting him doing so.