Belgium Grand Prix 2008 ***SPOILERS***

What a disgrace!! First off did Kimi not block Hamilton and move over twice before going to the racing line?????

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

why not? going into the chicane lewis was at least alongside Kimi, so one could argue Kimi gained. I'm not totally convinced a penalty was justified. If this had happened lower down the grid could you say the same punishment would have been given?

If it was deserving of a punishment (which its dubious) a 25s penalty is absurd. Its different to France, in that Kimi was ahead of lewis before the next corner. Its another one of those shitty rules, how long should lewis wait to repass what is clearly a slower car? Under the circumstances, if any punishment was to be given, surely a fine or grid drop would have been far better suited.

Sim

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All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!

"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole

That he cut the chicane, he had the momentum even if he lifted off to still come at kimi into la source. Had he backed off like most of you suggest rather than flat line the chicane he would not have carried that momentum. That is why he got penalized. He deserved it, they would have given it to anyone else.

Also the suggestion kimi should have been penalized in Valencia, why? Cause he hit his mechanic? That happens from time to time.

I hope kimi gives massa the treatment he deserves in helping him attain the world championship. I hope he doesnt just mope around in the 3rd row, but actually is a rear gunner to this championship. I think it would be the ultimate gentlemanly thing to do and would set up a great 09 season - if they keep kimi and massa that is.

Marco1 Wrote:
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> I hope kimi gives massa the treatment he deserves
> in helping him attain the world championship. I
> hope he doesnt just mope around in the 3rd row,
> but actually is a rear gunner to this
> championship. I think it would be the ultimate
> gentlemanly thing to do and would set up a great
> 09 season - if they keep kimi and massa that is.


Massa does not deserve any preferential treatment, as Kimi discovered today, results can change after the race so he might as well beat Massa every race incase Massa gets disqualified.

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Mclaren have now lodged their appeal, you can read it on autosport.

Marco1 Wrote:
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> That he cut the chicane, he had the momentum even
> if he lifted off to still come at kimi into la
> source. Had he backed off like most of you suggest
> rather than flat line the chicane he would not
> have carried that momentum. That is why he got
> penalized.


i totally agree with this point, he only nailed Kimi into T1 because he had the momentum of not slowing down fully, and was close enough behind Kimi, because he cut the chicane. had he slowed fully and not left the track, he'd have been a couple of seconds behind Kimi and wouldn't have been anywhere close to overtaking him into T1. with the faster car he'd have overtook him later on though.

but i agree with most, 25 seconds is too harsh. a 5-place grid drop at the next race would have been sufficient.

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RIP Jules, never to be forgotten. #KeepFightingMichael

And the same rules say that acting in a manner that cause a dangerus situation in the pitlane requires a penalty. And look at Valencia just 2 weeks before. There was aso a breach of rule, and 1/3 of ace laps to go, an the decision was left after the race and in the end, no itstop penalty, no grid penalty, notime penalty, jst a fine was given.

felipe massa fantastic.

sasjag Wrote:
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> why not? going into the chicane lewis was at least
> alongside Kimi, so one could argue Kimi gained.

But Kimi didn't cut the chicane, or even go off the road there? :\


sasjag Wrote:
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> If it was deserving of a punishment (which its
> dubious) a 25s penalty is absurd.

It's the set penalty. Drive through, or if it's after the race, a 25 second penalty. Apparently that is fixed, so it's not at the discretion of the stewards to alter it, though I'm sure if necessary, they would have.


sasjag Wrote:
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> Its different to France, in that Kimi was ahead of
> lewis before the next corner.

Kimi didn't have anything to do with the incident in France? :\



I can't see the argument for not applying this penalty. This is an incident where precedence has been set in the past, has been handed out when necessary when drivers haven't given the position back either, and the punishment is always the same.

well guys, it seems to me that the FIA tries to keep the championship exiting by any means necessary..
today's penalty for lewis was just unfair..

any time a ferrari is involved they seem to be favored by the stewards..
i like ferrari a lot but that's just obvious..

who said here massa and hami were going to took themselves off ?

pretty much this...but in just an identical way not exactly

only just read all this, turned off tv after kimi's retirement

all i can say is lmao

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matt3454 Wrote:
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> what a load of bollocks.
>
> ferrari international assistance to the aid of
> incompetent wet weather drivers again.

hamilton wasnt exactly competent, he spun and went wide a couple times, and couldnt pass kimi fairly... he finished the line first cos better car then others wo didnt make mistakes in the wet.

Im glad he got penalised, he deserves it, and massa gets gifted a win, which makes up for the win hamilton got gifted in hungary.

"I can't see the argument for not applying this penalty. This is an incident where precedence has been set in the past, has been handed out when necessary when drivers haven't given the position back either, and the punishment is always the same."

well, i for one can say thats not true





and MS wasnt penalised, arguably worse than what Lewis did today.

"But Kimi didn't cut the chicane, or even go off the road there? :\"

No, I meant that before the chicane lewis was at least alongside Kimi, until Kimi ran him wide, so by Kimi getting his entire car in front of Lewis he was in a better position.

Lewis had to let Kimi pass him, which eh did. To do so, by definition, he had to be travelling slower than Kimi, so I can not see how lewis benefited from this.

Now, one thing we can ALL agree on (i hope) is that in the past the FIA have indicated that someone needs to move over in order to avoid a penalty. Maybe enough time wasnt available in this case, due to Kimi's crash, but one has to wonder why teh FIA did not issue this order. I know Ron contacted Charlie for his opinion on the situation, and he said he viewed it as fine, so maybe this was why.

Sim

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All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!

"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2008 07:31PM by sasjag.

He went wide at the end because a Williams was near stationary at the exit of the corner, not much anyone could have done there bar launch off him.

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Precedent doesn't mean anything when a Ferrari is involved. In Valencia, the stewards were only meant to make a judgement on Massa after the race if it had been 5 laps or less before the end of the race. Instead, they did not follow this or give the standard penalty. Also, when the same thing happened to Senna in the GP2 race, he was given a drive through penalty.

Fincent Wrote:
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> Disgrace. Absolute disgrace. There is no
> consistency coming from the stewards recently. He
> was ahead by the start of the chicane and had
> every right to go around the outside, Kimi pushed
> him wide and forced him to go over the run off
> (otherwise there would have been a collision).
> Yes, Hamilton was ahead after the corner but not
> only did he let him past, he let him ease out over
> the straight. It wasn't momentum why he then went
> back ahead at T1, it was the fact Kimi braked
> early! How can you have momentum over someone if
> you have to let them back past?!
>

Kimi did nothing wrong, thats fair racing, he should have taken risk of the collision instead of cutting chicane, why should a driver just let someone pass without trying to hold their position? in your view, kimi should have let him through at the chicane, but as if that would happen.
And no, he didnt let him past enough, he kept just enough distance to be able to outbrake kimi into the turn, he should have gave more, and that is why he got penalised, its no conspiracy, first thought in my head was 'hey that was a bit naughty hamilton' and i was so glad when i heard that the incident was being investigated, because it was unfair. hamilton had the speed, he would have got him eventually anyway, but had another brain fade moment, and i think that moment led to kimi crashing, as it would have been a different situation at that point in hamilton had not cut the chicane.


>
> EDIT: Just also noticed! Why hasn't Kimi been
> given a penalty of some description? He was under
> investigation too and surely him running around
> the outside of the track at Pouhon gave him lots
> of extra momentum and a slingshot at overtaking
> Lewis into the Fagnes chicane!

watch the replay fool, hamilton also went off the track there :p only he got back on the track faster. the extra momentum was because hamilton also went off.

to get it right you need the telemtry and the onboard from the move before it starts in chicane so we will be able to understand why they punished him better than some frontal/diagonal camera in La source .

the stewards have alot better stuff to analyse than some random like us who sometimes just say an instant hot headed opinion because our driver got harmed.

had FIA punished noone ppl would complain too.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2008 07:41PM by Rodrigo007.

dkpioe Wrote:
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> matt3454 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > what a load of bollocks.
> >
> > ferrari international assistance to the aid of
> > incompetent wet weather drivers again.
>
> hamilton wasnt exactly competent, he spun and went
> wide a couple times, and couldnt pass kimi
> fairly... he finished the line first cos better
> car then others wo didnt make mistakes in the
> wet.
>
> Im glad he got penalised, he deserves it, and
> massa gets gifted a win, which makes up for the
> win hamilton got gifted in hungary.

hamilton didnt win in hungary....

Sim

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All Hail The New York Giants - Winners of Superbowl XXI, XXV and XLII!

"I'd love to know what goes on in that crazy head of yours sometimes, Sim..." - Locke Cole

No one got a penalty then.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2008 07:40PM by TC.