The Testing and How will the cars look in 2009 Thread

barcelona winter testing with 2009 aero bmw sauber

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2008 03:15PM by SAMF1.

nice vid, what did you film it on?

what are u talkin about, i got from youtube to show to your guys

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SAMF1 Wrote:
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> what are u talkin about, i got from youtube to
> show to your guys


ah ok, thought maybe you filmed it and uploaded.

Dunno if someone had already posted it, but...

Mugello

Valentino Rossi - 1'22"550
Kimi Raikkonen in september'08 - 1'21"070

Not too bad.

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c'mon that nearly more than 1 second off the pace with the same f2008.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2008 06:05PM by SAMF1.

err yeah, but he rides bikes for a living!




LS's Tip of the week
ESSENTIAL OILS aren't essential unless you're an engine, a gearbox or a twat

Poeple thought Loeb was quick...

both drivers, Loeb and Rossi both legends in their own sport nad considered to be amungst the best being close to the pace of the current F1 drivers is no supprise.

In the same way its no supprise that Shumacher could probably be pretty handy in a Rally car and we know he has at least some talent racing bikes seeing as though he's been offered a drive in one way or another. Its clear anyone at top level motorsport simply has natural talent to be able to drive whatever it is very quick! Jeff Gordan (Sp?) another example, if i remember correctly he was not too far off the Indy pace at all.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL

[en.f1-live.com]

Apparently, BMW plan to find out just how good these cars are at overtaking, in the most obvious way (You would have thought), by racing them.
A one on one race between two modified F1.08 cars at the Jerez test.

I just cant accept these new wings, for me the problem is in the width of the car.

Until 1997 they were 200cm wide. Since 1998 they are 180cm wide. What was the reason for that?

Had we returned to the pre-97 width, then we wouldnt have to see these damn ugly rear and front wings...

I'm not an aero engineer but I just cant see how a smaller rear wing can help overtaking. Badoer and Klien were saying that overtaking was still difficult. For me, it was more the width of the car and the damn extra aero devices (horns, shark fins, vanes, dumbo ears...) to blame for it.





now that would be good! That mclaren was a beauty, ban these ugly raised nosecones please! ;P lol

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2008 06:10AM by Bruninho.

Bruninho Wrote:
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> Until 1997 they were 200cm wide. Since 1998 they
> are 180cm wide. What was the reason for that?

Like most changes in regulation, to keep speeds reasonable. The cars would look much better wider, but they're not going to make them faster just to make them a bit easier on the eye. They spend a fortune trying to make them go slower as it is.


Bruninho Wrote:
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> I'm not an aero engineer but I just cant see how a
> smaller rear wing can help overtaking. Badoer and
> Klien were saying that overtaking was still
> difficult

Klien also said that it was easier to follow closely, but as most cars still had 2008-spec rear wings, he was reserving judgement.

I don't think they're trying to make overtaking easy as such... just trying to keep the cars closer.

The smaller rear wing should make a difference. It's not the hole in the air as such, it's the air being lifted up off the ground by the rear wing and diffuser combination. They've simplified the diffuser, though it's largely the width of the rear now, but with the rear wing being so much narrower, they can't work together directly for 1/3 of the width of the car. It will still be difficult to follow another car, and that would apply no matter what you did, so I hope people aren't suddenly going to expect karting levels of closeness, but it should be noticeable in fast corners that cars don't fall back as much.

Apparently the rear wing is narrow so that the air can pass by the sides of them cleanly, to allow the wider front wings to generate downforce.

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You know you want to. [judgegrudge.mybrute.com]

There are a number of things to it.
Before when F1 had larger amounts of downforce the 'tow' when following a car on a straight was much larger and so overtaking from on a straight was easier.

By reducing the downforce, and therefore the tow slipstreaming will became slightly harder. In this case they will try to again reduce downforce but hopefully the cars will be able to follow through corners which is what the OWG intended.

One of the main problems as Gav said was the interaction of the diffuser and rear wing. The rear produced two massive trailing vortices that produce an upwash and the airflow exiting the diffuser gets sucked up into it at almost 90degrees, and the following cars downforce is messed up by the change in the airs vertical momentum and changing the direction of the flow and flow angle to the front wing.

My opinion on it? You want cars nose to tail? Shroud the wheels/tyres.

bruno if you go back to F1 rules pre 1998 or want the cars to look like early 1990's expect cars to go a hell of a lot faster. Thats what the FIA dont want to do. With the proposed rules they will keep the cars speed quite similar to last year. Those F1 cars produced more downforce than our current cars. It has mainly been tyre technology that has helped laptimes more than anything imo.

btw - on BMW's 3 element rear wing, just remembered but around July when the proposed regulations came out to us was there not talk on 3 element rear wings again?

edit - Bruno, the laptimes back then were not too far of they are now. Keeping the speeds down, well constant was probably priority for the FIA when they approved the OWG proposed changes.

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"Trulli was slowing down like he wanted to have a picnic" LOL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2008 02:40PM by chet.

And again... the aerodynamics aren't the be and end all of the root of difficult overtaking.

People seem to assume that a reversion to early 90's style wide track aerodynamics would automatically cure their perceived problem of overtaking.

It wouldn't.

People forget that in that era, and probably most eras before that the performance spread was much wider than it is today.

In the late 80's early 90's you usually had either a McLaren Honda or a Williams Renault that was sometimes 2 seconds a lap quicker than the next best car, and the spread across the whole field was easily 5 seconds and often much when you take into consideration of teams like Andrea Moda, or names you have to be a real anorak to know about etc.

Today drivers say that unless they're lapping two seconds quicker than the car in front then it is nearly impossible to overtake.

And look at the performance spread today.. the whole field is often covered by 2 seconds or less, improvement in laptime of a tenth of second could catapult a driver from the back-row to midfield, or from midfield to near the front.

Is it any really any wonder that when the cars are all lapping to virtually the same speed and time that overtaking is extremely difficult and rare?

These new regs, that have been worked on by Ferrari, McLaren and Renault WILL improve overtaking. But it won't all be down to the aerodynamic solutions they have come up with. A big portion of it will be down to the wider spread of performance that it is likely to generate, and overtaking will become more difficult again as the teams close up to one another. It's a vicious circle.

fair enough. good explanations.

But i still cant accept these new front wings. Its shocking to my eyes!

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well tbh i really hate that picture of that mclaren nosecone

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Bruninho Wrote:
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> fair enough. good explanations.
>
> But i still cant accept these new front wings. Its
> shocking to my eyes!







Kimi, so, Massa Fernando Sebastian is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?

The wide front wing is not the problem, the problem its the wide nose!!!!

Does anybody know what the date would be for the Silverstone winter testing? I'll be able to drive by then and I'm thinking of taking a few friends and enlightening them lol

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Circuit Thermalito

Liverpool Waterfront Circuit (WIP)

is it just me, but when i now see one of last years cars, espeically the honda, i think the back wing looks v strange being so wide?

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