So the 2009 line up: Bourdais is officially confirmed by STR
Posted by BAR#10
i think it is way too early to write massa off.
i think losing it in that way would give more motivation than ever. he would know that if he hadn't made some small mistakes he could be champion, and that should spur him on. i think his maturity and reaction after the last race shows that he is up to coming back from the loss.
and also, he is a unique case in that, for 30 seconds or whatever, he had the feeling of being a world champion, and i'm sure he'd like to have that feeling for much longer
X (@ed24f1)
i think losing it in that way would give more motivation than ever. he would know that if he hadn't made some small mistakes he could be champion, and that should spur him on. i think his maturity and reaction after the last race shows that he is up to coming back from the loss.
and also, he is a unique case in that, for 30 seconds or whatever, he had the feeling of being a world champion, and i'm sure he'd like to have that feeling for much longer
X (@ed24f1)
Look at those two gangstas from Maranello
What has Kimi to say about that?
Of course photos from "Wrooom 20009" (Madoona di Campiglio), yearly Ferrari/Ducati event
Kimi's vehicle:
Felipe's vehicle:
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2009 08:32PM by Rodrigo007.
What has Kimi to say about that?
Of course photos from "Wrooom 20009" (Madoona di Campiglio), yearly Ferrari/Ducati event
Kimi's vehicle:
Felipe's vehicle:
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2009 08:32PM by Rodrigo007.
Oh look, Massa's jeep has a big 3 on it! 
yes it looks like there may have been some miscommunication between the FIA and Ferrari at some point
X (@ed24f1)
X (@ed24f1)
Guimengo Wrote:
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> He failed at winning the title, as did a few other
> drivers. He greatly succeeded at gaining our
> respect by maturing so much and possibly
> overachieving!
If you say so
My position about him hasn't changed one bit after last year. I still do not like him.
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> He failed at winning the title, as did a few other
> drivers. He greatly succeeded at gaining our
> respect by maturing so much and possibly
> overachieving!
If you say so
My position about him hasn't changed one bit after last year. I still do not like him.I'm with Joe Satriani in this one.
Both drivers mentioned above are untalented. The current one hasnt proved anything, just that hes crap in wet races, while the german driver was very overrated for his era. He was just lucky that the greatest ever F1 driver died in 1994, otherwise he wouldnt have even won a single title.
It was Senna's death that put him in that position, not his "talent".
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2009 04:23PM by Bruninho.
Both drivers mentioned above are untalented. The current one hasnt proved anything, just that hes crap in wet races, while the german driver was very overrated for his era. He was just lucky that the greatest ever F1 driver died in 1994, otherwise he wouldnt have even won a single title.
It was Senna's death that put him in that position, not his "talent".
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2009 04:23PM by Bruninho.
J i m Wrote:
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> So according to you... the man who won as many
> Grand Prix as Senna and Prost put together is
> untalented... the man who won as many
> championships as Senna and Prost put together is
> untalented.
>
> Yet Nelson Piquet Jr is talented.
>
> The word deluded has just taken on a whole new
> meaning.
You are STILL ignoring how he won them. Not with his "talent", obviously. Senna wasnt around when he won it, otherwise he'd have NEVER won races, titles, he would just be another obscure name in the F1 records. Senna would win 1994, 1995, 1996 and 1997 seasons in a dominant way, last time a championship winning Williams was seen in his era.
The german driver, however, was winning them by cheating. being helped by team orders. using an illegal traction control system @ Interlagos 1994. using an illegal fuel rig (that was giving them 2s in refuelling and almost costed Jos Verstappens life @ Hockenheim 1994). His list of cheats are immense, including Monaco 2006 La Rascasse parking.
In a way you can say hes talented. He has a talent for cheating.
And who the f%*k mentioned Piquet in this discussion? What he has to do with that?
Hes still a rookie in a very big learning curve, he's improving and he'll be a world champion with no doubt. And he will do it in a more honest way than your "talented" german driver did.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2009 05:41PM by Bruninho.
-------------------------------------------------------
> So according to you... the man who won as many
> Grand Prix as Senna and Prost put together is
> untalented... the man who won as many
> championships as Senna and Prost put together is
> untalented.
>
> Yet Nelson Piquet Jr is talented.
>
> The word deluded has just taken on a whole new
> meaning.
You are STILL ignoring how he won them. Not with his "talent", obviously. Senna wasnt around when he won it, otherwise he'd have NEVER won races, titles, he would just be another obscure name in the F1 records. Senna would win 1994, 1995, 1996 and 1997 seasons in a dominant way, last time a championship winning Williams was seen in his era.
The german driver, however, was winning them by cheating. being helped by team orders. using an illegal traction control system @ Interlagos 1994. using an illegal fuel rig (that was giving them 2s in refuelling and almost costed Jos Verstappens life @ Hockenheim 1994). His list of cheats are immense, including Monaco 2006 La Rascasse parking.
In a way you can say hes talented. He has a talent for cheating.
And who the f%*k mentioned Piquet in this discussion? What he has to do with that?
Hes still a rookie in a very big learning curve, he's improving and he'll be a world champion with no doubt. And he will do it in a more honest way than your "talented" german driver did.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2009 05:41PM by Bruninho.
MS won races with Senna racing... and how do you know if Senna was alive he could won 94 95 96 and 97 titles? Are you Nostradamus?
Frantic Wrote:
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> MS won races with Senna racing... and how do you
> know if Senna was alive he could won 94 95 96 and
> 97 titles? Are you Nostradamus?
1. You forgot that Benetton was given a better and more updated spec of these Ford Engines, and the McLaren deal saw them receiving the old specs. They would only get the new ones after Benetton. Thats why he could win races when he was there, but he was never in contention for the title. Senna was.
As for 94 95 96 97 titles. When you consider how strong he was at this age, 1993 we saw the best out of him, the genius at his best. And when you consider how strong the Williams was through these years. There is no doubt that he'd win them.
-------------------------------------------------------
> MS won races with Senna racing... and how do you
> know if Senna was alive he could won 94 95 96 and
> 97 titles? Are you Nostradamus?
1. You forgot that Benetton was given a better and more updated spec of these Ford Engines, and the McLaren deal saw them receiving the old specs. They would only get the new ones after Benetton. Thats why he could win races when he was there, but he was never in contention for the title. Senna was.
As for 94 95 96 97 titles. When you consider how strong he was at this age, 1993 we saw the best out of him, the genius at his best. And when you consider how strong the Williams was through these years. There is no doubt that he'd win them.
Nickv Wrote:
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> Funnily, five of MS' titles were won between 2000
> and 2004. I very much doubt Senna would've still
> been driving by then. He would've been in his mid
> 40s in 04.
You are still ignoring the things.
The german would never win these titles because like i said, had Senna been alive, he would just be another obscure driver for the F1 books. No one would know who he is.
Ferrari wouldnt have signed him, he wouldnt become the "man" you all are praising for.
So i can firmly write that he would have never been a world champion if Senna hadnt died.
Lets consider hypotetically your view, nick: Senna survives the crash, wins 1994, 1995, 1996 and 1997 seasons and retires, around 1998, 2000. I remember that Senna always wanted to drive the Ferraris (go figure, I have never understood it) so I assume that he'd retire driving for them. Where would be your german hero? Still at Benetton, probably. McLaren was rising back to the top with Mika Hakkinen. Kimi Raikkonen, Alonso and others would come after 2000, and being younger than him, they certainly would have a lot more chance than him. I doubt very much that Ferrari would sign the man that was beaten by Ayrton Senna several times (if he was still alive) for their 2000-2006 campaign and immediatelly turn it into a championship winning car - that work only began in 1996.
You need to consider the past before talking about the future. The past (and the present) determines your future. You cant just ignore that and say that he would still win 2000-2004 seasons without thinking about what he did in the past to get there.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2009 07:02PM by Bruninho.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Funnily, five of MS' titles were won between 2000
> and 2004. I very much doubt Senna would've still
> been driving by then. He would've been in his mid
> 40s in 04.
You are still ignoring the things.
The german would never win these titles because like i said, had Senna been alive, he would just be another obscure driver for the F1 books. No one would know who he is.
Ferrari wouldnt have signed him, he wouldnt become the "man" you all are praising for.
So i can firmly write that he would have never been a world champion if Senna hadnt died.
Lets consider hypotetically your view, nick: Senna survives the crash, wins 1994, 1995, 1996 and 1997 seasons and retires, around 1998, 2000. I remember that Senna always wanted to drive the Ferraris (go figure, I have never understood it) so I assume that he'd retire driving for them. Where would be your german hero? Still at Benetton, probably. McLaren was rising back to the top with Mika Hakkinen. Kimi Raikkonen, Alonso and others would come after 2000, and being younger than him, they certainly would have a lot more chance than him. I doubt very much that Ferrari would sign the man that was beaten by Ayrton Senna several times (if he was still alive) for their 2000-2006 campaign and immediatelly turn it into a championship winning car - that work only began in 1996.
You need to consider the past before talking about the future. The past (and the present) determines your future. You cant just ignore that and say that he would still win 2000-2004 seasons without thinking about what he did in the past to get there.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2009 07:02PM by Bruninho.
J i m Wrote:
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> I did. And for your information he's surrounded by
> allegations of cheating in the junior formulas.
Any proof?
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> I did. And for your information he's surrounded by
> allegations of cheating in the junior formulas.
Any proof?
strange how Senna's survival would still mean that Benetton would be anally retentive about the Silverstone penalty and set up the cars a few mm too low in Belgium
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