Brazilian Grand Prix ***SPOILERS***

It better not be.

marcl

Kool.
But don't you think the whole thing stinks of orchestration? I mean yes, if the cars are guilty fine. And TBH anything more than constructor penalties or fines would definitely qualify that.

OMG ...I just had a really horrible thought what if Ron made an agreement with those teams to run on chilled fuel Knowing that they would be penalized in the event that something untoward happened to Hamilton thus, qualifying the Champion Ship...... Naaaaaaaaaaaaa!
I've been reading too many novels lately .......... I need a vacation LOL.

I'm sure they will not take drivers points away ,there is simply not enough evidence about fuel temperatures.

Which is quite funny in a technological sport like F1. They can build cars that can go 350 km/h and all sorts of electronic gizmos, but they can't even measure temperatures of a fuel sample.

(yes I know the car building is down to the teams and measuring to the FIA, but still)

vesuvius

You've been right so far "V".

Well done Kimi! He absolutely deserved it in the end he was the best driver over the course of the year. Obviously I would have prefered Nando to win, but once I realised he didnt stand a chance I was going for Kimi and now see its prbably the beswt result.

Ron Dennis has a bad habit of 'sour grapes' (as Ross Brawn put it) when he loses, and this appeal just shows that again. Its rather a coincidence, especially as two different teams have the same problem and their both ahead Hamilton.

There needs to be some serious shakeups in the FIA this winter, cos this whole season has been absolutely farcical.

Finally, I wish McLaren had got into a position where Alonso needed to move over for Hamilton, cos I bet he would not hav done it.

---

It was a good drive by kimi but massa let him win people must not forget that.

You could see massa backed off as kimi came out from is 2nd pit stop. But that was always going to happen so dont matter.

Mclaren messed up twice in Brazail anyway. 1st the car prob 2nd was the 3 pit stops. Also by hearing what lewis was saying it sounds like alonso may have done a break test but it was still lewis error.

Had they stuck to 2 lewis would have been 5th he finish less that 20 sec's behind and that was the extra pit stop.

It does seem silly that they check fuel but can not check it properly, just like felxi wings and floors. They test them but do it wrong.

zeppelin101 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> y2cwr2005 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Go mclaren! GO! As if they haven't screwed F1
> > already this year.
> > Why don't they just guarantee they've buried
> the
> > entire sport.
> > Absolutely pathetic team.
>
>
> Says you with a mclaren in your avatar
>
> Ferrari has never put the sport into disrepute
> either of course.
>
> I'm past caring tbh, Mclaren have a right to
> appeal, but if the drivers lose their points, I
> will not be watching F1 again until there is an
> overhaul in the way its organised and generally
> run.
Got rid of that mclaren
was a fan of senna but never mclaren

marcl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It was a good drive by kimi but massa let him win
> people must not forget that.
>
> You could see massa backed off as kimi came out
> from is 2nd pit stop. But that was always going to
> happen so dont matter.
>
> Mclaren messed up twice in Brazail anyway. 1st
> the car prob 2nd was the 3 pit stops. Also by
> hearing what lewis was saying it sounds like
> alonso may have done a break test but it was still
> lewis error.
>
> Had they stuck to 2 lewis would have been 5th he
> finish less that 20 sec's behind and that was the
> extra pit stop.
>
> It does seem silly that they check fuel but can
> not check it properly, just like felxi wings and
> floors. They test them but do it wrong.



but the thing yes Massa helped but neither of the ferrari drivers pushed on the limit they both said they could have gone a lot quicker so we don't know what would have happened if they really would have pushed and raced against each other but the fact is they didn't.

I really dont see what mclaren are doing wrong here, people would say different if their team had been affected.

Mclaren did not score points in Hungry due to a lesser offence than running illegal fuel and gaining a performance advantage.

The whole thing is a joke and the FIA need to get their house in order.

And Max summed it up by saying ferrari are more important to f1 than other teams, now let people say the FIA give them equal treatment.

F1 is totally corrupt and this is due to the rule makers.

Its ok for ferrari to win a championship in court but nor mclaren.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2007 02:26PM by marcl.

well if nothing change till the begenning of 2008 these are the official car numbers:

1 e 2 - Ferrari
3 e 4 - BMW Sauber
5 e 6 - Renault
7 e 8 - Williams
9 e 10 - Red Bull
11 e 12 - Toyota
14 e 15 - Toro Rosso
16 e 17 - Honda
18 e 19 - Super Aguri
20 e 21 - Force of India (ex-Spyker)
22 e 23 - McLaren

SexySam182 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ron Dennis has a bad habit of 'sour grapes' (as
> Ross Brawn put it) when he loses, and this appeal
> just shows that again. Its rather a coincidence,
> especially as two different teams have the same
> problem and their both ahead Hamilton.


When i team is using chilled fuel which according to Mike Gascoigne (sp) gives a massive advantage you should not appeal?

Remembering that Lewis may have caught them if this fuel did give them such an advantage.

If they have cheated then they should be thrown out of the race as it is impossible to give just to team docked points as the advantage to the drivers would be massive.

Ferrari would do exactly the same in this situation.

_______________________________________________________________________

marcl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It was a good drive by kimi but massa let him win
> people must not forget that.
>
> You could see massa backed off as kimi came out
> from is 2nd pit stop. But that was always going to
> happen so dont matter.
>
> Mclaren messed up twice in Brazail anyway. 1st
> the car prob 2nd was the 3 pit stops. Also by
> hearing what lewis was saying it sounds like
> alonso may have done a break test but it was still
> lewis error.


Fernando brake tested Lewis? Don't make me laugh! Lewis was cautious going into turn 1 and when Fernando got alongside he tried to stay with him and went on the dirty part of the track.

Felipe was a great team player he did what he had to do in the end.

matt3454 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When i team is using chilled fuel which according
> to Mike Gascoigne (sp) gives a massive advantage
> you should not appeal?

It gives a small advantage which decreases to nothing after around 3 laps. Gascoyne never said "massive" at all. He said it could give 5-10hp, an "illegal performance advantage".

Was just going by what lewis said that he had to avoid the back of alonso's car normally when people say that it implies break test or am I wrong.

Lewis was not carefull at turn 1 he near enough hit kimi up the back.

And yes matt thats what I have been saying as well. They gained an advantage where in the past with the fuel thing they did not gain an advantage.

And yes ferrari would appeal as well and they have done back in 1995 in Brazil as Berger would have won the race. Williams and Benetton lost points. But this is totally different.

and the advantage was only about 1 second in whole race so not very much.

I went to bed last night thinking it was all over, Kimi had won the title and no punishment had been handed out. Wake up this morning to find it's back open again for appeal! I just...I'm fed up with this sport, I really am. I agree that if rules are broken then some punishment needs to be handed out but what is it about this year and politics and off track decisions? If it can be proved that the cars in question gained an advantage then give them a time penalty equivalent to the time they gained...simple!. I saw Kimi win the title on TV last night, and I saw him celebrate on the podium. I've also read interviews with Lewis and his father feeling optimistic for the future. I would now hate for all of that to mean nothing but like i said, if rules have been broken then sanctions need to be applied. The thing that surprises me most is Ron Dennis. It wasn't two weeks ago that I heard him utter the very words "All we want is closure". This doesn't seem like closure to me.

---

Circuit Thermalito

Liverpool Waterfront Circuit (WIP)

But that does not matter a second is still a 2nd and against the rules simple as that. Its like having a boost button.

Anyway time will tell but I dont think anything will happen not now there will be too mcuh egg on the face of the FIA.

Its not the 1st time we have seen kimi win in Brazil and then something happen.

Ron closed that but this is something new.

The cooler fuel would have also helped keep the engine temps down after pit stops when heat generates.

Also what seems funny is that Alonso thought he might be a ferrari driver next year and then they resign massa makes you wonder if ferrari done this to destable mclaren. These games have always been part of F1.

I like most just want this season over.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2007 03:10PM by marcl.

the thing is, that Hamilton and McLaren @#$%& it up badly. Hamilton was driving like an idiot in the first 8 laps, a driver who drives like he did in thoose laps, doesn`t deserve a championship. He had all the luck all year, never got any penalty (which he should on more than one or two occasions), and finally, he @#$%& it up by himself, driving like an idiot in first laps of the race. Not to mention Shanghai pit entry... He should use his brains more, but at least now hopefully we wont see his stupid smile on TV for a while.
Yes, I don`t like him, I liked him at the start of the season, but he became an arrogant @#$%& after a couple of races, trying to be polite infront of the British and world press, but a dickhead on race track.

Does anyone honestly believe that any of the cars would be investigated if lewis didn't finish behind them?
It was down to his own mistakes that he finished 7th, but nope Mclaren can't accept that and move on.